how to deal with running bad?

so.... I run bad more than i have good runs. my bad runs last longer than my good runs.

i spend a day doubling up my bankroll. it takes a few hours to lose it all.

when i start winning a bunch, i think im getting better and better, and perhaps the bad runs are over (for at least a while). but then a bad run slams me again, and undoes all the wins i had, + some more.

does anyone else have this experience? for my entire career my bad runs are twice as strong as my good runs. is this gonna last forever?

Bad runs are never over. Variance can't be stopped and in fact should be embraced.

TBH I don't believe you are experienced enough to know if you are running bad or playing bad.

I'm going to guess there are a couple of things going on here:

1. When you double up your bankroll you take "shots" at higher limits and increase your chance of going bust, or you simply aren't playing within proper BRM.

2. You have tilt issues which exacerbate downswings.

3. You have serious fundamental leaks in your game that are preventing you from being consistently profitable.

baudib1 said:

Bad runs are never over. Variance can't be stopped and in fact should be embraced.

TBH I don't believe you are experienced enough to know if you are running bad or playing bad.

I'm going to guess there are a couple of things going on here:

1. When you double up your bankroll you take "shots" at higher limits and increase your chance of going bust, or you simply aren't playing within proper BRM.

2. You have tilt issues which exacerbate downswings.

3. You have serious fundamental leaks in your game that are preventing you from being consistently profitable.

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im not very experienced, but im not clueless either. im pretty sure im on a bad run here.

in the following hands i did not get expected value. except for last hand, which i think even pros would make the same mistake.


Hand#268698AB07000019 - $3 Heads-up NL Hold'em Super Turbo T10005255 -- Table 1 -- 0/20/40 NL Hold'em -- 2011/08/13 - 16:36:02
Seat 3: blikbleek (1,375 in chips) DEALER
Seat 8: cv22***8 (1,625 in chips)
blikbleek: posts small blind 20
cv22***8: posts big blind 40
Dealt to blikbleek [Ah,Js]
blikbleek: raises to 80
cv22***8: is all in 1,585
blikbleek: is all in 1,295
cv22***8: returns uncalled bet 250
blikbleek: shows [Ah Js]
cv22***8: shows [Ac Ts]
*** FLOP *** [Qs,3c,8d]
*** TURN *** [9d]
*** RIVER *** [Jc]
***SHOW DOWN***
cv22***8 wins 2,750 with Straight Queen high
blikbleek finished 2 out of 2 players.



Hand#268698A8E7000044 - $2 Heads-up NL Hold'em T10004711 -- Table 1 -- 0/15/30 NL Hold'em -- 2011/08/13 - 13:50:48
Seat 3: MetM***3 (1,880 in chips)
Seat 8: blikbleek (1,120 in chips) DEALER
blikbleek: posts small blind 15
MetM***3: posts big blind 30
Dealt to blikbleek [Td,Tc]
blikbleek: raises to 60
MetM***3: raises to 180
blikbleek: is all in 1,060
MetM***3: calls 940
MetM***3: shows [Qc Ac]
blikbleek: shows [Td Tc]
*** FLOP *** [3c,Ad,8c]
*** TURN *** [8d]
*** RIVER *** [5d]
***SHOW DOWN***
MetM***3 wins 2,240 with Two Pairs Aces and Eights
blikbleek finished 2 out of 2 players.


Hand#268698A9FD000017 - $5 NLH Double-up T10004989 -- Table 1 -- 0/25/50 NL Hold'em -- 2011/08/13 - 15:36:18
Seat 1: 5pin***1 (2,472 in chips)
Seat 2: pado***2 (772 in chips)
Seat 3: OLCT***3 (1,385 in chips)
Seat 4: OzzY***4 (1,600 in chips)
Seat 5: GCar***5 (1,470 in chips)
Seat 6: blikbleek (1,330 in chips)
Seat 7: Arch***7 (2,813 in chips) DEALER
Seat 8: SMTM***8 (1,058 in chips)
Seat 9: poke***9 (2,100 in chips)
SMTM***8: posts small blind 25
poke***9: posts big blind 50
Dealt to blikbleek [Jd,Js]
5pin***1: calls 50
pado***2: folds
OLCT***3: folds
OzzY***4: folds
GCar***5: folds
blikbleek: raises to 150
Arch***7: folds
SMTM***8: folds
poke***9: folds
5pin***1: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [Jh,7c,9c]
5pin***1: checks
blikbleek: checks
*** TURN *** [8d]
5pin***1: bets 188
blikbleek: calls 188
*** RIVER *** [7s]
5pin***1: bets 501
blikbleek: is all in 992
5pin***1: calls 491
5pin***1: shows [7h 7d]
blikbleek: shows [Jd Js]
***SHOW DOWN***
5pin***1 wins 2,735 with Four of a Kind Sevens
blikbleek finished 9 out of 10 players.

go through your sessions find two tough hands, post them on cash game analysis forum, dont take the first responce as the answer to the hand.
Think about why there answer is to play it like x and z and dont be afraid to ask.
do this after every session, until you cant find any real tough spots.

Also when you watch a video to study, jot down little notes about what you learnt in the video, and re read them every day until it's part of your game. the money sorts it's self out in poker as long as your playing the best you can.
what to do on the bad unlucky sessions? - dont let it bother you (easily said than done! )stoplosses may be good for you if it hurts you to much psychologicaly, get up next day and try not to be shit on again.

And remember..........

CheckraiseLife said:

go through your sessions find two tough hands, post them on cash game analysis forum, dont take the first responce as the answer to the hand.
Think about why there answer is to play it like x and z and dont be afraid to ask.
do this after every session, until you cant find any real tough spots.

Also when you watch a video to study, jot down little notes about what you learnt in the video, and re read them every day until it's part of your game. the money sorts it's self out in poker as long as your playing the best you can.
what to do on the bad unlucky sessions? - dont let it bother you (easily said than done! )stoplosses may be good for you if it hurts you to much psychologicaly, get up next day and try not to be shit on again.

Click to expand...

sounds like a good idea. too bad i already lost my bankroll. next time i should shut down and study some poker when i get too many losses. ill try that for my next deposit. thanks man

BB:

Posting three hands you lost doesn't illustrate anything. These aren't even really unusual or unlucky except the losing to a 1-outer hand. AJ/AT HU with less than 40 BBs is basically a cooler either way, TT vs. AQ is a coinflip.

FWIW the JJ hand was played pretty badly. There's no way anyone avoids losing there but checking the flop as PFR is terrible.

Anyway, this illustrates that you do not have the experience to understand what running bad is. Running bad means running massively under expected EV for a prolonged period of time, not losing a couple of hands where you and your opponent both had good hands or good equity.
Running bad would mean like you played 20K hands in a month and ran KK into AA 20 times and had AA vs. KK 3 times.


I mean, are you suggesting there aren't any hands where you got lucky on someone?

Sometimes, I feel the same as you. I took days to build a decent bankroll, but then I lose all in a few hours, but the reason, for me, is because I start to play higher limits that I should. Is this the same thing that you do?
The main rule on poker is bankroll management otherwise you never going to build a solid bankroll. I read several articles about that, but, for some reason, I just can't follow the rules of the BM.

also if you lost your confidence in your game abit, theres a good coaching listing on 2+2 it may seem alot $50 an hr (min usually) but you would be suprised how many leaks could be filled in that hour and how longterm profitable that is, I use a coach all the time and I fee llike I wouldve lost alot more if I never paid for it.

just keep grinding if youve been losing stop before it gets bad dont sit there and say ok ive got to get this back or ive got to slow this bad run down bc it never will.....just play poker...you lose you win thats the nature of any game....

I know you've had a tough day today , but that hand wasnt played to well, (imo) however set v set moneys going in one way or another regardless.
but, you are making mistakes as well as running bad, you can have both which is the worst combintion to have in poker, Like I said before the ways to improve your game is to constantly be analysing every hand you play even the samller pots add up to a sizeable sum of money in the longterm.

invest in your game through coachiing for best results or if you cant really afford that, forums like these are great! poker geeks like me love reading hand historys and giving you godly (sometimes terrible) poker advice

CheckraiseLife said:

I know you've had a tough day today , but that hand wasnt played to well, (imo) however set v set moneys going in one way or another regardless.
but, you are making mistakes as well as running bad, you can have both which is the worst combintion to have in poker, Like I said before the ways to improve your game is to constantly be analysing every hand you play even the samller pots add up to a sizeable sum of money in the longterm.

invest in your game through coachiing for best results or if you cant really afford that, forums like these are great! poker geeks like me love reading hand historys and giving you godly (sometimes terrible) poker advice

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for some reason people tell me that trapping isnt a good play. but i really dont understand why it would be terrible in this case. i hit a set with all undercards. i mean yea there were possibilities for a straight draw but mathematically speaking, in this case i would have the nuts more often than not by the river. so why is it bad play?
normally i would bet pot or 2/3 pot on the turn to get some idea of his strength, but being that the straight draw became a real possibility, i only called his bet.
i see videos of pros checking with set all the time.

is it because this was a DoN?

or maybe because there was a straight draw. i really didnt put him on K-Q although it wasnt entirely out of the question. in truth i put him on AJ. or a higher pocket pair. in which case i didnt think he would hit a set becasue there were limpers.

because even if he has a draw he's calling you charging him here might make him re raise and spew checking opens the door where your hand is under repped and when a bad card hits on the turn and river you wont know if your ahead or behind.
when hes showing agression and you'll probably be paying off maybe not large amounts but you will be paying off alot.
checking the flop with a set really depends on the board texture and the opponent
if the flop was dry like j27 rainbow checking here wouldnt be bad since hes not going to be calling you when you bet alot. but on this wet board though you should bet your hand.
if the villain is just bat shit crazy giving him the chance to bet is good also, let him be the aggressor. but on this board if you decided to do that your calling no maater what lands pretty much, so its riskier.

CheckraiseLife said:

because even if he has a draw he's calling you charging him here might make him re raise and spew checking opens the door where your hand is under repped and when a bad card hits on the turn and river you wont know if your ahead or behind.
when hes showing agression and you'll probably be paying off maybe not large amounts but you will be paying off alot.
checking the flop with a set really depends on the board texture and the opponent
if the flop was dry like j27 rainbow checking here wouldnt be bad since hes not going to be calling you when you bet alot. but on this wet board though you should bet your hand.
if the villain is just bat shit crazy giving him the chance to bet is good also, let him be the aggressor.

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I see. the clubs and the straight draw. I hope i learn from this. I usually do account for draw-heavy boards but for some reason i my gut told me i had him beat by far. i didnt think he would draw on me by the river.

but i guess none of that matters now. this is a hand I will definitely learn from. (despite its improbability, lol)

blikbleek said:

I usually do account for draw-heavy boards but for some reason i my gut told me i had him beat by far.

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Do you prefer to put money in when you're ahead by far or behind by far?

i went on a bad run today, went from 160 dollas consistently losing from bad play, tiredness etc to 93, i had accepted i was gona lose my whole bankroll ive built so i said i mite aswell play 10. 25 omaha which was way outta my league, sat down with 15 and 45 minutes later im sittin on 80 dollars at the table, my bankroll is back...

DONT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS lol

believe it or not just take a break for a few hours ,maybe a day, mabe a few days. clear your mind then get back in it.sounds silly but it helps me refocus

You guys are over analyzing this. Take a break. Pure and simple.

f_my_luck

I know how you feel and I have a way for you to find out if you are really running bad or if you are just remembering the bad beats and forgrtting the times you got lucky (a lot of people do this without realising.) Have u ever heard of sklansky dollars? If not google it and try it out. Its pretty simple (and a bit of a pain the a$$ ) but it definitely helps.u don't even need to do it as you are playing, you could write the hands down and do it after you have finished. Some people believe in the long run everybody runs the same, however, I never bought that and by using sklansky bucks I have proved it to myself. Make sure you are fair, and although it doesn't account for everything (coolers, set ups, none showdown pots) it should give you an idea of if you really are running bad or if you are playing bad. Alternatively, you could use software but I don't use any of that and couldn't advise u best on how to go about it. Thankyou and good luck at the tables.

Good Subject

This is a very good subject for me. My bad runs are much longer than my good ones. But what I have learned through out my 9 years playing online is that you can cut the losses by playing only the good hands and do less raising so you can get into the hand for less. Say if you catch Qs and the flop comes AK something don't be one who will call to the river with a losing hand. Get out of it. I've also tried playing other games. And one of the best things I learned to do is to just get away from the tables for awhile. Negative thoughts that you will surely lose because you have been will cause you to play without thinking. One more thing I have learned. Never play A with a low kicker unless it is suited and not many of them. You know why? because you about have to make 2 pair to win the hand

can always keep stakes low so u dont lose much when losing but i know its hard too stay out of the greart money added tournies! good luck!