Hole Card Software

I keep seeing things and hearing about software that when you put your mouse over someone elses hole cards it shows them. I was just wondering if anyone could reinforce that this could NOT happen? Hopefully

Doesn't happen !!!

Without getting too technical, (in holdem) your hand is sent to you in a 'packet' that contains just YOUR 2 hole cards and 18 'blank card backs' to display at the other seats. You are never sent the card values of the other players. Each 'packet' that is sent to your seat as betting rounds progress contains only the card information relevant to what YOU need to see.

There is a detailed explanation of this on one of the sites. If I can find it, I'll post it.

Yea I understand what you are saying but I have heard that there is something you can purchase online that will allow you to see what the other players at your table are actually holding. Anyone ever heard of this?

That was my point. If your 'packet' does not contain the 'value' of your opponents' cards, how could you wave a magic wand over what doesn't exist (their blank card backs) - and see it ??

That is what I think too but I was just wondering if anyone had ever heard of this software.

wendysman88 said:

That is what I think too but I was just wondering if anyone had ever heard of this software.

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Sure, have even seen it offered on sites like eBay, but I think even they removed all 'cheating' offers for any online/computer gaming. And if you buy it, and it doesn't work, what are you going to do? Sue them for selling you software for cheating that didn't work ??

Security is one good reason to stay with reputable online sites like Stars and FT. They spend a lot of time and money providing safe online gaming. Small sites 'could' be a problem, but they don't last long. First word of confirmed cheating, and the customers/players are gone - buh bye. AP and UB are still suffering from their previous scandals.

Here's a portion of the security info from pokerstars, in full at - http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

in part...
Security Highlights:
Software Download:
The first point at which security becomes an important factor is when the client software is downloaded from the PokerStars site. We must ensure that the client software is downloaded unmodified. To address this requirement, we built the following features into the download process:
For Internet Explorer the validity of downloaded executable is verified by the browser using our key and Thawte certificate.

For other browsers we use 1024-bit RSA key and a Thawte server certificate to protect our HTTPS web server & download.

Play-time security:
We have a number of built-in features to ensure the security of the game itself.
Our client software uses the certificates issued by our own Certificate Authority (CA) to authenticate our servers
Our CA certificate key is 1024 bit length.

Our client software uses the industry standard SSLv3 protocol. It is configured to use RSA for authentication and key generation and triple-DES (EDE3, in outer-CBC mode) for encryption. Currently we are using 512-bit RSA key, which according to [1] is sufficient for short and medium-term (up to several years) secrets. As we update server private keys every three months, we are secure with a good safety margin. The use of Triple-DES EDE3 for session encryption is considered even safer
No private data, such as pocket cards, is ever transferred to other players.
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If they don't send you the other player's cards, how could ANY program 'read' or display them for you ??

There are people on Ebay who will sell you the Eiffel Tower or a house on the moon. If you are convinced they are genuine, go for it. It`s your money.

... but I wouldn`t. :laugh:

Alright thanks. I am glad I don't have to worry about people trying to buy things (to cheat) that will help them have an edge. Ever wonder why in online sites they never show the burn card?

wendysman88 said:

Alright thanks. I am glad I don't have to worry about people trying to buy things (to cheat) that will help them have an edge. Ever wonder why in online sites they never show the burn card?

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Nope. In online sites, there IS no burn card. The purpose of a burn card with a live deck is to prevent a 'marked card' from being observed by the cheater. Online, you cannot see the 'top' card, therefore, no need to burn it.

Since you are a new member, you may be running close to your '7 per day' posting limit. In case you get to a point you can't reply til tomorrow, I'll post another msg here in a few minutes about online shuffles and deals and you can reply at your convenience when you can.

There are 2 kinds of shuffles used online. Random number generators (RNG) is a whole different subject, for another time.

Pokerstars shuffles and sets the full deck before the first online card is 'dealt'. Nothing will change the order of the deal, just like on a live table with a live deck (with the exception of the 'no burn' card online).

Most other sites use what they call a 'constant shuffle'. Their software deals (at random, for holdem hands) the first 18 cards at a 9 seat table. After the betting round, the software calls for 3 more cards at random from any of the remaining cards for the flop. Betting round, the software asks for the turn card at random, etc, til the river, if needed.

One of the biggest reasons I prefer playing on Pokerstars is the preset deck. Whatever cards are dealt, it is the same as a live table.

At a 'constant shuffle' site, the next cards to be dealt are any of the remaining cards. It is like sitting at a live table and having the dealer pull the flop cards from anywhere in the deck, still at random.

It is so weird we were talking about that software earlier. I was sitting at a cash game on fulltilt and went all in with AK (dumb move on my part) and a guy calls with KK. I am not complaining about the beat at all. What he said at the end had me worried.

He said he saw my cards before the flop.

"pattypot: i saw your cards before"

Now I know you can't believe whatever someone says but I just thought that was ironic that we were talking about this a little earlier.

Just think about it, if someone had this software that allowed them to magically see everyone's hole cards why would they sell it when they could make millions of dollars just using it themselves. It just wouldn't make sense to spread it around like that.

I have heard this previously but I am not aware of anything to substantiate the claims.

wendysman88 said:

It is so weird we were talking about that software earlier. I was sitting at a cash game on fulltilt and went all in with AK (dumb move on my part) and a guy calls with KK. I am not complaining about the beat at all. What he said at the end had me worried.

He said he saw my cards before the flop.

"pattypot: i saw your cards before"

Now I know you can't believe whatever someone says but I just thought that was ironic that we were talking about this a little earlier.

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He knows you're a noob so he's trying to wind you up. There is no software which lets you see opponent's hole cards.

well if its out there i am sure they wouldnt be selling it online and as far as the guy saying he saw your hole cards doubtful he was just counting his blessing a ace didnt pop up ps 500acres of swamp for sale in pristine florida and gauranteed no gators any takers lol.

I would be very wary about trying to download something that claimed to help me cheat at holdem. I would fully expect it to not work, but I would also not be surprised to find that it just happened to transmit my cards to the programmer of said software!!!

Thought this thread might have been about hole card cams on live tables & such. After reading through I realized it was not, but thanks Nick for all the information on shuffling & random generators etc. Not something I've really thought a lot about, but the information you've provided was enlightening

I don't think that will even happend online, Hole Card System should become very bad since they can watch the cards with 2 computers.

The only way someone else can see your cards is if they have a way to penetrate the security of your specific computer, no one has software that can allow them to see all cards though, at least I don't believe so.