Higher stakes poker easier?

NCfoldem

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Are higher stakes poker tourneys and ring games easier for quality players? I can't afford them, so I don't know from personal experience. I have a theory that it might be easier to make money in them if you know what you're doing. Any truth to this?
 
pokerman27

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if you know what you're doing you should beat any stakes. I think a lot of people think they're better than they are and decide to move up where their sophisticated play will get more respect - trust me, you'll just get a lighter BR.
 
NCfoldem

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Bad players will play bad hands, make bad calls, etc. The problem here is that you may be good enough to beat any 1 bad player, but if everyone is just throwing their chips around without any idea of what they are doing (.01/.02 6 player ring game for example), the random nature of the cards will have some of them getting lucky pretty often. My assumption is, that better players are less likely to call in late position with 6 8 o (for example), so they would not be in a position to crush you when the flop comes down 5 7 9. Is there any truth to this?
 
Poker Orifice

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What's wrong with 'calling with 86o in late position'?
If stacks are deep & they know you're NIT who's not going to be able to fold an overpr. or TPTK hands... then they're going to have huge implied odds with speculative hands.
 
nc_royals

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Ive won a few sattelites and played in some big buy-in MTT's where I was out-classed.

It's funny cause I leave a small buy in MTT and feeling bad becuase I think I had a badbeat. I leave the big Buy in MTT and leave feeling bad because I got outplayed.

Both have there own pitfalls that's why a good MTT player is still just ITM around 15% - 20% of the time. In the long run you'll still be more profitable against players that are worse than you.

As for cash games I imagine it is the same way.
 
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LOL, if you are a better player, 68o is a hand you are calling with in late position.
 
WVHillbilly

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Why the hell are you guys calling with 68??? 3bet that shit!
 
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One just needs to make adjustments to the play on the table.
My own personal experience is that I will have better results at a marginally higher buyin than the very lowest.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Are higher stakes poker tourneys and ring games easier for quality players?

No.

The only caveat is that rake gets lower proportionally. But very obviously games get tougher when you move up.
 
dj11

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My assumption is, that better players are less likely to call in late position with 6 8 o (for example), so they would not be in a position to crush you when the flop comes down 5 7 9. Is there any truth to this?


Bad assumption I think. BUT HUGE BUT! I to do not have any experience with big buy-in ring games.

I think most poker schooling, either from books, or articles or forums will concentrate the efforts on understanding the game and at least make an attempt to tighten up true noobs. It is the guy who expects to get lucky that is the target for the 'education'.

That said, watching Poker tourneys, and HSP will show that it seldom makes much of a matter what starting cards one holds, and more matters on how they are played.

So it sort of boils down to being rolled for the bigger games, and being able to withstand the crushing defeats at the fins of the fish......:eek:

I too have that nagging suspicion my game is more suited to much bigger buy-ins than I am willing to afford, but alas, barring a miracle, I may never find out...:(
 
Mortis

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High stakes, low stakes.. it's all the same game. Just because some people play in higher stakes, doesn't always mean that they are better players.. that just means they have more money.

I have a theory that it might be easier to make money in them if you know what you're doing. Any truth to this?

What a concept!! :D
 
BelgoSuisse

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High stakes, low stakes.. it's all the same game. Just because some people play in higher stakes, doesn't always mean that they are better players.. that just means they have more money.

True for the fishes. But the regs are way better higher up.
 
LennyPigeon

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I think I understand what you are trying to say.. you think it will be easier to put better players on a hand as they know how to play the game right? Therefore their call/raising range will be reduced? This could also work the other way though.. the same better players will take this into account and throw in occasional unusual plays. I don't believe it is easier to win at higher stakes.
 
WVHillbilly

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Actually the better players tend to be at the upper range of profitable looseness if that makes sense. They understand the power of position and use it better. They're better at hand reading and know what boards you're opening range can continue on and they use that knowledge to win pots with basically position and ATC. So hand reading becomes more difficult not easier and you're doing it against people who hand read better.
 
NCfoldem

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Well, I never said what the bet was. I intentionally left that part vague. However, if you call in late position with 8 6 o generally - might be easier to just flush ur chips down the toilet. I'm not saying never do it - just saying that it is a crappy hand. You know this - you have been playing for a long time. I know you just like giving me a hard time. Would you rather be dealt A K suited or 8 6 o ?

What's wrong with 'calling with 86o in late position'?
If stacks are deep & they know you're NIT who's not going to be able to fold an overpr. or TPTK hands... then they're going to have huge implied odds with speculative hands.
 
NCfoldem

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Thank you Lenny! Someone always says what I want to say better than I - neuro disease, blah, blah, blah. I appreciate the input by all - trying to get helpful info really. I guess what I'm saying is that better players will not throw their chips away normally. They assess calculated risks better and are more likely to fold in a losing situation. Therefore, it seems that your bad beats would be somewhat less? I dunno ... asking more than assuming really.

I think I understand what you are trying to say.. you think it will be easier to put better players on a hand as they know how to play the game right? Therefore their call/raising range will be reduced? This could also work the other way though.. the same better players will take this into account and throw in occasional unusual plays. I don't believe it is easier to win at higher stakes.
 
WVHillbilly

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What you perceive as bad beats might be somewhat less but your losses will be a lot more.

What hand would you rather your opponent called your EP open with preflop J3o or 22??? Let's give you pocket Aces. The flop is JT2 double suited. The "donkey" with J3 might give you his stack because he "puts you on AK" but the "better player" is ready to take it with his set.
 
NCfoldem

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I think I meant that it may be easier to win at a higher table for a good player than it is for a good player to win at a donk fest table. Bad beats happen when you outplay your opponents by a lot; wouldn't you be outplaying your opponents by a lot, more at a lower table than a higher table if you're a good player?

I think I understand what you are trying to say.. you think it will be easier to put better players on a hand as they know how to play the game right? Therefore their call/raising range will be reduced? This could also work the other way though.. the same better players will take this into account and throw in occasional unusual plays. I don't believe it is easier to win at higher stakes.
 
NineLions

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Get in enough situations where you're ahead and you'll win in the long run.

You'll have more reaally bad suckouts the lower the level 'cause they'll get it in with worse hands, and those might be memorable, but in the long run a good player will win more big blinds per hand at lower levels than at higher levels, usually in spite of the rake difference. You still have to read your opponents, put them on a range (just don't assume a narrow range for a 60/10 player), adjust for fold equity (you may have none; that's fine, just be aware of it), try to make them make mistakes, and have patience.
 
LennyPigeon

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Thank you Lenny! Someone always says what I want to say better than I - neuro disease, blah, blah, blah. I appreciate the input by all - trying to get helpful info really. I guess what I'm saying is that better players will not throw their chips away normally. They assess calculated risks better and are more likely to fold in a losing situation. Therefore, it seems that your bad beats would be somewhat less? I dunno ... asking more than assuming really.

Yes, as hillbilly has said, you are right in thinking you will suffer less bad beats at a higher level.. this is because better players will fold when they are behind more often than poorer players will. I guess this also means that a well timed bluff is more effective when playing stronger players..
 
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I think there are probably a lot of poor players with a lot of money they can afford to waste, so there is a lot of bad play even in very high stakes.
What do you do when you have too much money to spend? Look at the roulette wheels in casinos and the people who park their yachts in Monte Carlo.

However the professional players don't waste their time at low stakes and they are good at applying the pressure to any amateurs that venture into their fishing grounds.
 
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imo i think that in high stakes the good players will win over the long run, the fish will get lucky sometimes but the pro's make a living off fish taking chances in the big game and will eventually get crushed
 
O

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I can only speak for the games I play, which is mostly re-buy sat tourneys.
The low buyins are really easy. The 'regulars' are really weak, and the fish is plenty.
As you move up there are still some fish, but the regulars are really tough.
And most of the time the fish will be gone within the first hr, and then you are sitting there with solemly full grown pro's.

So definetly no.
 
NCfoldem

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I still am not convinced that I know the answer here. I am also not convinced that great players find lower end tables easier than higher end tables. Good poker players can't utilize their skills at tables where people throw their chips around like wedding rice. It's a luck fest; one's skill is less helpful, not more. That's my point anyway - so far no one has given me a convincing argument that this is not the case. I want to be wrong on this since I can't afford big stake tables, but ...
 
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