High stakes poker season 7 is a disgrace.

Thinker_145

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I have been watching the season 7 these days and cant believe the kind of hands the "pros" have been folding. I have seen 3 pros folding an over pair against an amateur and all of them had the best hands. Doyle folded QQ, phil laak folded AA on a 8 high flop lol and then even though he technically didnt have the best hand but the 2010 wsop champion folded QQ after laak folded his AA which had given him the best hand.

And then some player I dont know his name folded KK on a Q high flop against greenstein. I aint watching the rest of the episodes this is just ridiculous.

It seems obvious to me that the stakes are well beyond the comfort level of most players except the businessmen.
 
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just because they had the best hand doesnt make it a bad fold
 
Thinker_145

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just because they had the best hand doesnt make it a bad fold
If you have watched the season you would know they made scared folds and no way would they do that if the stakes were lower.
 
bezobrazny

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I have been watching the season 7 these days and cant believe the kind of hands the "pros" have been folding. I have seen 3 pros folding an over pair against an amateur and all of them had the best hands. Doyle folded QQ, phil laak folded AA on a 8 high flop lol and then even though he technically didnt have the best hand but the 2010 WSOP champion folded QQ after laak folded his AA which had given him the best hand.

And then some player I dont know his name folded KK on a Q high flop against greenstein. I aint watching the rest of the episodes this is just ridiculous.

It seems obvious to me that the stakes are well beyond the comfort level of most players except the businessmen.

You should consider the game dynamic always my friend, it makes always a huge difference. And who knows, maybe they both felt the same. A set and then :eek:
 
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I have been watching the season 7 these days and cant believe the kind of hands the "pros" have been folding. I have seen 3 pros folding an over pair against an amateur and all of them had the best hands. Doyle folded QQ, phil laak folded AA on a 8 high flop lol and then even though he technically didnt have the best hand but the 2010 WSOP champion folded QQ after laak folded his AA which had given him the best hand.

And then some player I dont know his name folded KK on a Q high flop against greenstein. I aint watching the rest of the episodes this is just ridiculous.

It seems obvious to me that the stakes are well beyond the comfort level of most players except the businessmen.

Easy when you can see the cards . . .
 
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I have been watching the season 7 these days and cant believe the kind of hands the "pros" have been folding. I have seen 3 pros folding an over pair against an amateur and all of them had the best hands. Doyle folded QQ, phil laak folded AA on a 8 high flop lol and then even though he technically didnt have the best hand but the 2010 WSOP champion folded QQ after laak folded his AA which had given him the best hand.

And then some player I dont know his name folded KK on a Q high flop against greenstein. I aint watching the rest of the episodes this is just ridiculous.

It seems obvious to me that the stakes are well beyond the comfort level of most players except the businessmen.

What's amazing to me is how often things seem obvious to you, yet you're not a well-known big-time pro. Perhaps, as ScottishMatt sagely pointed out, it's because all your second-guessing has been done with the benefit of seeing everyone's cards ...

Come play some HU matches with me at Lock. I'll show you my bluffs when I make you to fold while holding nothing, then ask why you didn't think your hand was good there ...

-HooDooKoo
 
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Thinker_145

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For those who havent watched the season 7 or dont remember it please dont comment thanks. :)

All of those times the commentator was also shocked.
 
Thinker_145

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What's amazing to me is how often things seem obvious to you, yet you're not a well-known big-time pro. Perhaps, as ScottishMatt sagely pointed out, it's because all your second-guessing has been done with the benefit of seeing everyone's cards ...

Come play some HU matches with me at Lock. I'll show you my bluffs when I make you to fold while holding nothing, then ask why you didn't think your hand was good there ...

-HooDooKoo
Dont have an account there but I'll be ready to accept your challenge at bet365.
 
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For those who havent watched the season 7 or dont remember it please dont comment thanks. :)

All of those times the commentator was also shocked.

The commentator sucked balls. Now you are basing your analysis off of someone else's thought process.
 
Thinker_145

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The commentator sucked balls. Now you are basing your analysis off of someone else's thought process.
No I am not but I am just giving example that I am not the only one thinking that.
 
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No I am not but I am just giving example that I am not the only one thinking that.

And the reason you are not the only one thinking that is because you aren't the only one who isn't as good as the professionals you criticise. I've only seen you in a couple threads but all that I've gathered is something along the lines of you saying "professional does "x", why on earth would he do "x" when I would always be doing "y" . . . "

Then you claim it's ridiculous. Really?

You seem to be stuck up on the results of every hand, you seem to be indicating that the professionals play pretty bad, and that you would be making the call instead of folding. I can say with full certainty that if numerous professionals make a fairly similar play, then it is with good reason. That reason is one that you have yet to insert into your own thought process and analysis, and is most likely one of the reasons you aren't sitting where they are sitting. You don't get to where they are at by making consistent mistakes in what you seem to view as an easy situation.
 
Thinker_145

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And the reason you are not the only one thinking that is because you aren't the only one who isn't as good as the professionals you criticise. I've only seen you in a couple threads but all that I've gathered is something along the lines of you saying "professional does "x", why on earth would he do "x" when I would always be doing "y" . . . "

Then you claim it's ridiculous. Really?

You seem to be stuck up on the results of every hand, you seem to be indicating that the professionals play pretty bad, and that you would be making the call instead of folding. I can say with full certainty that if numerous professionals make a fairly similar play, then it is with good reason. That reason is one that you have yet to insert into your own thought process and analysis, and is most likely one of the reasons you aren't sitting where they are sitting. You don't get to where they are at by making consistent mistakes in what you seem to view as an easy situation.
It is your view that an amateur cannot criticize or cannot play a particular hand better than a professional which is really flawed.

Tell me something. Do you ever criticize a company for some decision? Would you criticize nokia and blackberry? But I bet you are not more qualified than their CEOs so that means you are not good enough to have an opinion right?

No not all the professionals did that. I have watched the previous 6 seasons of high takes poker and such cowardice play didnt happen anytime. You bet a daniel negraneu, gus hansen, phil ivey, tom dwan and partick antonious would never fold such hands.

I'll give you an example from some season that I dont remember but I remember exactly what happened. Eli elezra has AA against sammy farha and one other player. The flop comes J92(or something like that), sammy goes all in he is a short stack. The other guy also moves all in and he has a lil more chips so basically he is raising Eli elezra. Eli calls with his AA and wins the hand. He later says that if anyone of them was a huge stack then he may have folded to which jennifer harman replied that she is NEVER folding that hand in that spot no matter what the stacks.

You guys are all so stuck in the "you have to be a pro to criticize a pro" its just absolutely ridiculous. I take watching poker as a sort of entertainment/sport, do you ever see sports fans telling each other that they cant criticize the teams because they dont play as good? Or perhaps do you ever see someone saying that you cant criticize a movie because you arent a good actor yourself? lol.
 
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It is your view that an amateur cannot criticize or cannot play a particular hand better than a professional which is really flawed.

Tell me something. Do you ever criticize a company for some decision? Would you criticize nokia and blackberry? But I bet you are not more qualified than their CEOs so that means you are not good enough to have an opinion right?

No not all the professionals did that. I have watched the previous 6 seasons of high takes poker and such cowardice play didnt happen anytime. You bet a daniel negraneu, gus hansen, phil ivey, tom dwan and partick antonious would never fold such hands.

I'll give you an example from some season that I dont remember but I remember exactly what happened. Eli elezra has AA against sammy farha and one other player. The flop comes J92(or something like that), sammy goes all in he is a short stack. The other guy also moves all in and he has a lil more chips so basically he is raising Eli elezra. Eli calls with his AA and wins the hand. He later says that if anyone of them was a huge stack then he may have folded to which jennifer harman replied that she is NEVER folding that hand in that spot no matter what the stacks.

You guys are all so stuck in the "you have to be a pro to criticize a pro" its just absolutely ridiculous. I take watching poker as a sort of entertainment/sport, do you ever see sports fans telling each other that they cant criticize the teams because they dont play as good? Or perhaps do you ever see someone saying that you cant criticize a movie because you arent a good actor yourself? lol.

Criticise away. I don't have an issue with you criticising them, what I struggle to comprehend is why you start a thread about it?

Yeah I criticise things myself, but I tend to do it in areas where I have enough knowledge to justifiably do so. Or, if I don't have the adequate qualifications/knowledge to do so, I criticise for the purpose of furthering my knowledge and actually learning something.

All this thread does is say "Here look at this, these guys play so bad, effing cowards!"

What is your point?


If you had made the same thread while attempting to analyse their thought process and asking what others thought of their moves and why, then this would actually have some purpose. As it stands though, this thread isn't even criticism - it is simply a bitching session for you because you aren't happy with how someone else plays poker.

Quick edit -----

The problem isn't criticising the pros. The problem is criticising them in a situation where the only information you have (their opponent's hand) is biased and irrelevant. It's a situation where the pros have so much more to go on than you do. Do you have any history with these players? Do you have any idea how the game has been going? Are you in on the meta-game of the table? Do you know what happened the very previous hand?

What you see is select snippets and not the whole show. You simply aren't privy to enough information to objectively criticise them here. We could give speculative criticism and have a nice discussion, you don't appear to be interested in that though.
 
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JusSumguy

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phil laak folded AA on a 8 high flop lol and then even though he technically didnt have the best hand but the 2010 WSOP champion folded QQ after laak folded his AA which had given him the best hand.
A ghosted straight on the board can be pretty scary.
animated_witch_pot.gif~original


-
 
Thinker_145

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There was no possible straight on the board, infact the amateur who won the pot had a gut shot.
 
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lol its funny that u know better than these pros even tho they make millions
 
luckytvguy

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just because they had the best hand doesnt make it a bad fold
Pricisely.That is difference between the pro and us.The day we do the same thing will be the day we make money.Poker is game of lacking information.
 
dresturn2

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sometimes you gotta play the man and that means more than just bluffing....it also means sometimes folding AA on 8 high board
 
dresturn2

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sometimes you gotta play the man and that means more than just bluffing....it also means sometimes folding AA on 8 high board

I mean jeez!!! Havent you ever seen ROUNDERS that epic moment when he Matt folded top 2 heads up against Teddy KGB....CMON MAN.....lol:p :p :p :p :p
 
TheKid84

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Yea, I remember when Phil Laak folded that full house against Johnny Chan. I mean how can anyone fold a full house? Here it is:


You wonder how these 'pros' make the folds they make. Everyone on this forum isn't folding a full boat there. We're all losing at least another 30k in Phils position there.

They're pro's because they've earned it. We're watching single hands out of millions they've played. For every bad call/fold we see them make, they've easily made great calls/fold x10.
 
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it is really easy to say that when you can see all the cards, and you are not playing that amount of money, and being watched by millions of people
 
dmorris68

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...I mean how can anyone fold a full house?...

Everyone on this forum isn't folding a full boat there.
Don't know about "there" but don't be so quick to say none of us can fold a FH. Zeebo's Theorem aside, I've done it on a double paired board when I have the small side and villain's range and actions made it clear he had the over boat. I'm pretty sure others here have done so as well, I know I've seen it done.
 
JusSumguy

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Looked like an easy fold to me. Any A and he's dead.

I liked Phil's feeler bet as well.

-
 
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just because they had the best hand doesnt make it a bad fold
Anytime you are the favorite and you fold, that's a bad fold (obviously). Do all poker players make mistakes? Yup, all the time. What separates the good from the bad is the good players make mistakes that don't cost much.
 
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Anytime you are the favorite and you fold, that's a bad fold (obviously). Do all poker players make mistakes? Yup, all the time. What separates the good from the bad is the good players make mistakes that don't cost much.

No it is not.

You are not playing against a single hand, you are playing against a range of hands. Just because you are ahead this one time doesn't mean you shouldn't be folding. If villain plays a bluff the same way he plays his value hands then you have no idea whether he is bluffing or valuebetting. The key is in knowing how often these players will be bluffing compared to how often they will be valuebetting and if it is heavily weighted towards the value end of their range, you can certainly find a fold.


Folding a full house isn't that difficult. You can't just see poker in terms of hand strength. You have to see it in relative terms, and relative to the action, a FH might not always be good. It's not a tough laydown if you can deduce that you are beaten more often than not, to the extent that you don't have the correct price to call.
 
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