Going all in

How many of you go all in without the absolute nuts?

How close/far to the nuts would you go to consider going all in in a tournament (not a cash game)

In a recent interview, phil hellmuth mentionned one thing he does better than anyone in the world is going all in. He mentionned in the recent no-limit wsop event he finished 15th in this week, he went all in once at level 6 and the next time was level 23 so clearly the all in is the absolute last ditch tactical choice for him.

I find sometimes I snap impulse go all in with a strong hand or when I feel I am ahead and it costs me. But im wondering if people even good players who understand math, odds etc actually go all in a little more often than they should.

Maybe some of us put too much emphasis on the no limit part of no limit poker.

To recap im not talking about people who dont know what theyr doing and shove deep pre with J6o.

I know short answer is to not shove without the 98%+ nuts im wondering how people wrap their head around this potentially volatile option.

Of course it depends on the situation, sometimes it is absolutely correct to shove, sometimes it is the worst option. For the most part I don't like the all in because after that there is zero control over what happens next.

I gotta admit this is a big problem with my game. I let my emotion get away from me and push all in when the only way I'm gonna get called is when I'm beat.

I think you also have to consider stack size. If you've already put 75% of your stack in by the river and you're convinced your opponent was on a draw and missed, I think you can still push here without the nuts. Even though were on a draw they still may have hit a pair and call.

Over all though I agree with you maybe we do push too much.

You can't compare going all in playing a live tournament to going all in playing an online tournament due to the bigger starting stacks and longer blind levels in live tournaments.

PREflop...I go all-in with AA or when short stacked it depends on cards/position etc, etc but I rarely call a pre-flop all-in.

Depends on three things for me, stack size, strength of hand, and strength of table.

Stack size: Larger stack, less likely I want to put it all in the middle with a weaker hand. I have time to wait for a better spot to shove.

Strength of hand: Stronger the hand, the more likely I'm going all in. I consider three of a kind and above an always shove (with few exceptions) hand at the limits I play at.

Strength of table: This can be the most tricky aspect, the higher the limits the better the players, at first it just seems to get more nitty, but eventually at the highest stakes you'll reach a level where people bluff to win as much as they really have it. But at these levels all ins should be respected, very few times people shove with nothing or just a pair.

I am a firm beliver of going all in. It really depends on your stack size in relation to the blinds and antes. With a very deep stack you wont go all-in unless you really have something big, but in most online tourneys you are more or less shortstacked from the start.
The touneys Phil Helmuth play are different, cause he doesnt really get shortstacked that fast.
One thing is for sure. You need less to go all-in than to call an all-in.

i have actually noticed a really strange pattern at the micro level sng's

people call pre flop all-in shoves MORE then they would a standard 3-4xbb raise

its so retarded... its like they feel they are getting more value by calling as they can double up, hence why there are so many sickening bad beats as you see people with KK or AA lose to junk like QJos or KQos etc etc

but yea, i think i go all in a little too much... i need to work on this

I don't like to get allin unless I have a made hand or feel that someone will call me down light with a worse hand.

TPC said:

You can't compare going all in playing a live tournament to going all in playing an online tournament due to the bigger starting stacks and longer blind levels in live tournaments.

Click to expand...

Actually, live tournaments (with the exception of majors like the WSOP / WPT Main Events etc) usually have worse structures than online ones in terms of starting stack sizes and the number of hands you get per level.

Your point remains though - it's horses for courses. The strategy Phil Hellmuth employs in a relatively deep stacked, relatively slow WSOP tournament isn't necessarily the one that is going to work for someone else in an online turbo, or a rebuy, or an ordinary live tournament.

One thing about going all in is sometimes it can actually make you lose a hand that you might have won with a flop bet. Like you have QQ v AK, and the ace hits on the river... on a trash flop you can get AK to fold but he's likely to call an all in preflop. You can also force better hands than yours to fold if the flop looks really scary and they check it to you, you might be crushed and up against a bigger pocket pair than yours but if the flop is all overcards to the villans PP then you can steal the pot with a bet.

That said though, preflop shoving is an essential part of tournament play. If I'm short stacked in a tournament I'll usually shove ATC if its folded to me on the button.

I Try Not to, but...

I try not to go all in without the nuts, but sometimes I do because it's necessary. The positioning that I'm in makes all the difference in the world.

position is so so important, i also dont like all-in too much as for me it smells bluff at times, post flop

i've caught plenty of villians out who think "all-in" is going to scare me away, especially if they have you covered

but like Ecomdan said, all in pre flop with PP's can bite you in the bum vs AK, AQ, AJ etc where they spike you out on the river, you could of got them to fold if they missed the flop

Good comments, just to clarify I guess when you are short stacked and yo have a decent hand in good position, then yeah going all in is almost a no brainer. Id be curious to try never ever going all in or calling an all in only witht he quasi-nuts.

Of course theres also the times when youv already put in a large proportion of your stack and calling the rest becomes easy.

i tend 2 go all in wen i no im ahead and my apponant is on a draw,,,gotta make em pay,,