eberetta1
Legend
Loyaler
Mason Pye
Rock Star
Silver Level
I would have to disagree. I actually believe it has helped get more people into the game by allowing them to play for real money for free!
R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
Disagree on most of your views.
For me, poker is not a hobby...gardening is a hobby, weightlifting is a hobby, playing guitar is a hobby. Poker is a means of income even though most poker players lose money in the long run , they are the ones that allow me to win money.
To claim that it is less likely to be profitable in poker in 2015 then 2005, is unproveable and just a theory you have. Some players would claim the exact opposite and say there are more internet poker sites then ever before and certainly more live poker tourneys on the circuit.
IMHO..it is important for begginners, to NOT DEPOSIT a significant amount of money . In fact, for a begginner, I think its much better to use their money to play live poker , and play freerolls online because online poker is a different medium and alot more money can be lost online, due to the ability to always find a game, from the convenience of ones living room along with the fact that playing online results in many more hands being dealt , which can lead to more rake , more bad beats, more reckless playing.
Finally, your statement that
" Poker is a game, a gambling game where the net profit/loss is a loss for all players based on rake "
doesnt make much sense to me . If the rake in poker bothers you so much, then find a no rake game..or play in half rake games , or just stick to tourneys .
Are you a micro stakes player ? I believe that with your faulty opinions on poker , you probably dont play much high stakes, nor do you make much profits year after year.
R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
exactly right....when players play only freerolls..and win their $20 for grinding it out for first place....that money goes right back into the online poker site because these sites have minimum cashouts and they know that when a player gets lucky enough to win $20 in a freeroll, that money cant be cashed out...it is put in play.
Almost everything that was said by the guy who started this thread, is wrong. I dont know where people get these false ideas from. Freerolls also allow players to get a feel for the sites software , player pool and to see if they run good cards, or cold cards on the site. For example, I recently joined blackchip poker , and in 6 weeks of freerolls, I can tell that the site is not gonna be a lucky site for me . They wont get a penny deposit from me, until I start winning hands that I am supposed to win . As long as the bad beats continue, my money stays in my pocket and not deposited in some overseas account . As soon as my KK starts winning against A/rag or my AK , starts winning against K/J....then Ill consider making a deposit.
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
The only thing that makes poker work, like any sort of capitalist idea, be it the lottery, the casino, the horse races, the professional athlete, is the thought that you might just be the ONE. Why did it gain in popularity so fast when it did? Because people started to see relative nobodies winning millions of dollars. It's called "the Moneymaker Effect." As in Chris Moneymaker winning the Main Event from an online satellite. Of course, it was also important that poker started to be seen on TV. The invention of the pocket cam was instrumental. Nobody cared too much about watching people play a strategic game when they didn't understand what was going on. Selling poker as a strategic and challenging endeavor isn't going to bring in everyday Joe.
I've always found it funny that when the lottery jackpot is in the multi-millions, people say, meh, why bother, but when it reaches new record heights, the same people will be standing in long lines to get their shot at it. Like they say, "oh, I don't care if I win 95 million dollars, but wow, if I can win 700 million or a billion, now it's worth playing. It's not very logical. Your odds don't go up.
Same goes for starting a business. Most people need the profit incentive to go for it. And they'll sink lots of their own money into it while pursuing the dream. Can everyone make it? Of course, not. But it's the opportunity that's the most important thing. Kind of like the difference between communism and capitalism. When no one has any incentive to try to do things well, everyone suffers.
One thing about freerolls is that there are always winners. These winners think, "hey, I'm pretty good and look at those other tournaments with big prizes. I need to get in those," so they deposit. And it's up to the poker rooms to keep the dream of the big payday alive. Without big incentive and promotion or exposure, no new blood will enter. People don't get too upset if they lose, as long as they still have the dream.
I've always found it funny that when the lottery jackpot is in the multi-millions, people say, meh, why bother, but when it reaches new record heights, the same people will be standing in long lines to get their shot at it. Like they say, "oh, I don't care if I win 95 million dollars, but wow, if I can win 700 million or a billion, now it's worth playing. It's not very logical. Your odds don't go up.
Same goes for starting a business. Most people need the profit incentive to go for it. And they'll sink lots of their own money into it while pursuing the dream. Can everyone make it? Of course, not. But it's the opportunity that's the most important thing. Kind of like the difference between communism and capitalism. When no one has any incentive to try to do things well, everyone suffers.
One thing about freerolls is that there are always winners. These winners think, "hey, I'm pretty good and look at those other tournaments with big prizes. I need to get in those," so they deposit. And it's up to the poker rooms to keep the dream of the big payday alive. Without big incentive and promotion or exposure, no new blood will enter. People don't get too upset if they lose, as long as they still have the dream.
R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
You have to be very leary of any type of news you are told by lying outlets of media / tv / poker magazines. These venues are often used as a propaganda arm to promote or sell a product/ idea/ passtime....... that benefits the people who own and control much of the things on earth.
Chris Fergusons story could be true, then again it could be just another lie/exxageration , in which none of us can prove. There used to be a woman who played in the big tourneys on tv, and they used to market her as someone who once played a online tournament, and won it, without ever looking at her cards...as proof of how good she could read her opponents . Once again, this could be true, but I view it as another likely propaganda promotion ....or at the very least, we are not being given the complete details. For example, if it is true { which is highly unlikely] , then maybe it was just a 1 on 1 heads up tournament and not a regular huge field online tourney.
When it comes to media, and social trends and advertising, I find it is best to take what we are told, with a grain of salt, because in the end, the parasites that own and control most of the powerful and profitable venues on earth, are after one thing...OUR MONEY ! Its all about advertising , promotion , glorifying and setting social trends to keep people in society spending their money on things.
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R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yes, TV proved how powerful it is, when it came to promoting NL hold em to society. If you remember back to the year when moneymaker was on TV...the poker biz promoted poker in a genius way, by not only making people think they could be the next millionaire, but by also making poker players look " cool' ...for example...the tv was promoting those 4 or 5 young players they called the " rat pack" .....which ironically you dont hear about any of those players today { they probably went broke} .
The TV, also introduced us to many pro players, by giving them cool names..like THE PROFESSOR , KID POKER...THE BRAT...ETC...
this is all part of marketing gimmicks, and social fads...all to get people in society to spend their money . the one group that owns and control much of tv/meida, magazines, etc...are masters at programming the public .
I used to play poker with the guy that invented that table cameras that allowed viewers to see players down cards. We played at the TAJ in atlantic city....He was also the inventor of some other stuff and has several patents .
R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
if poker is shrinking...its not due to freerolls, its due to players losing their money continually and realizing that poker isnt all glitz and wealth as portrayed on the talmud tv sets. The moneymaker effect was also a social experiment that brought in millions of new players with the dream that they could be a amateur and strike it rich in poker...well guess what..95% of those poker players found out that dream was a nightmare . The poker boom, like most other booms ...was bound to burnout from its peak.
Im sorry, but most of the things you have said on this thread, are really incorrect .
R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
as far as online poker is concerned, I think it has been a blessing and a curse.
It has allowed millions of people to lose their food money, rent money, from the convenience of their living rooms. Also, the lack of solid regulations in the internet poker scene and the cheating/scandals, has been a huge black mark on poker...certainly hurting poker more then freerolls.
Freerolls are not making poker less popular
corrupt internet poker sites , people having less money to lose , poor paying jobs and the fall of the poker boom [ which is a natural event whenever something goes from boom to bust} are primary reasons.
IMHO...playing poker online, has more luck and less skills, then live poker..because live poker its easier to pickup on players tells...how they bet, facial gestures, vocal gestures, etc....none of this can be applied to online play , which means those skills of perception, are eliminated from the equations .
It has allowed millions of people to lose their food money, rent money, from the convenience of their living rooms. Also, the lack of solid regulations in the internet poker scene and the cheating/scandals, has been a huge black mark on poker...certainly hurting poker more then freerolls.
Freerolls are not making poker less popular
corrupt internet poker sites , people having less money to lose , poor paying jobs and the fall of the poker boom [ which is a natural event whenever something goes from boom to bust} are primary reasons.
IMHO...playing poker online, has more luck and less skills, then live poker..because live poker its easier to pickup on players tells...how they bet, facial gestures, vocal gestures, etc....none of this can be applied to online play , which means those skills of perception, are eliminated from the equations .
proud2Bwhack
Rock Star
Silver Level
being a pro gambler of any sort is a dream that will never die. And I would have to say it comes naturally, people dont have to be talked into it or sold the idea.
The second half of a freeroll MTT is very close to what a real money lower end tournament feels like, and is good practice for that. MUCH BETTER THAN PLAY MONEY!!!
The second half of a freeroll MTT is very close to what a real money lower end tournament feels like, and is good practice for that. MUCH BETTER THAN PLAY MONEY!!!
kbuinowski
Rock Star
Silver Level
about poker
But right now credit cards and most banks won't allow you to deposit money into your poker account. I do know one website you can pay for membership and they give you so many chips every day for the poker tourneys. Which WPT. But even our government is trying to make it hard to put money into your poker account and trying to stop these websites that are being run out side of the United States.
But right now credit cards and most banks won't allow you to deposit money into your poker account. I do know one website you can pay for membership and they give you so many chips every day for the poker tourneys. Which WPT. But even our government is trying to make it hard to put money into your poker account and trying to stop these websites that are being run out side of the United States.
R
Rumme1
Rock Star
Silver Level
Freerolls arent the problem with poker. The person that started this thread is clueless. Hes ranting about a subject in which his conjectures are faulty.
Freerolls actually generate more players to sign up for a internet poker site, and eventually deposit money in those sites..even if its only the bare minimum. Without freerolls on these poker sites, they would have less traffic..not more.
cese1962
Rock Star
Silver Level
80% of the players has no commitment to free tournaments
80% of the players has no commitment to free tournaments
When I attend torneior free or tournaments with low value notice that most do not play very obeying the rule of a good game of poker.
Sometimes end up winning a few hands for luck. This ends up annoying the other players.
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80% dos jogadores não tem compromisso em torneior free
Quando participo de torneior free ou de torneios com baixo valor noto que a maioria não joga obedecendo muito a regra de um bom jogo de poker.
As vezes acabam ganhando algumas mãos por sorte. Isto acaba irritando os demais jogadores.
80% of the players has no commitment to free tournaments
When I attend torneior free or tournaments with low value notice that most do not play very obeying the rule of a good game of poker.
Sometimes end up winning a few hands for luck. This ends up annoying the other players.
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80% dos jogadores não tem compromisso em torneior free
Quando participo de torneior free ou de torneios com baixo valor noto que a maioria não joga obedecendo muito a regra de um bom jogo de poker.
As vezes acabam ganhando algumas mãos por sorte. Isto acaba irritando os demais jogadores.
C
CSINSC
Rock Star
Silver Level
I personally feel that you can rate the quality of the site based on the frequency/value of freerolls. If a site doesn't offer freerolls I have ZERO desire to play there & as U so eloquently stated they won't get a penny from me. I do like the 100 freeroll that this site offers via ACR. There is usually ~75 players & top 15 pay so min-cashing usually takes around 90 minutes which isn't too hard to accomplish. Plus min-cashing is for $2 & not pennies. I'm grateful for this.
orsino12
Legend
Bronze Level
Freerolls are really the best incentive to get new players to a site. As said above, in most cases the payouts are below the minimum cashout for a site (maybe just the top 3 or 4 in a big freeroll might make enough) so most of that money ends up getting played on the site. There are very few players who will play freerolls exclusively. I love freerolls, but I look at them as a bonus to help pad my bankroll playing micro stakes. I'm just a recreational player who plays 1, or sometimes 2 tables while watching TV in the evening so it's easy to play any freerolls that come along, they don't take away from my normal playing like they might for those who like to play 6 or 10 tables at once.
When pokerstars dropped all my favorite freerolls I cashed out and tried 888 and haven't regretted it once.
When pokerstars dropped all my favorite freerolls I cashed out and tried 888 and haven't regretted it once.
C
Cupcakehk
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Freerolls
I like playing freerolls. It helps to pass the time when you are bored at home. Quick question - what is ACR?
I find some of the freerolls are hard to win because you have to come out less than 100 out of 5000-10000 players. I just came in 175 place and it was hard. Had to make a move because blinds reached $1600 and I only had $5,000 left. Went in with jq and pair of fours won with the player with the highest chip stack.
Better luck next time...
I like playing freerolls. It helps to pass the time when you are bored at home. Quick question - what is ACR?
I find some of the freerolls are hard to win because you have to come out less than 100 out of 5000-10000 players. I just came in 175 place and it was hard. Had to make a move because blinds reached $1600 and I only had $5,000 left. Went in with jq and pair of fours won with the player with the highest chip stack.
Better luck next time...
A2345Razz
Legend
Silver Level
If anyone is going to comment, PLEASE READ THE WHOLE FIRST POST AND NOT ASSUME I AM AGAINST ALL FREEROLLS, I AM NOT.
I ACTUALLY THINK FREE ROLLS PLAY A GOOD ROLE IN GROWING OUR GAME......
What I am against is what I termed: FREE ROLL CULTURE. Please read the OP and make sure you actually understand what I mean by free roll culture before responding.
I have profits lifetime in the mid 5 figures and currently play smaller MTTs online and midstakes live when I can which is rare.
I've had winning years for 11 out of the last 12 I believe.
I ACTUALLY THINK FREE ROLLS PLAY A GOOD ROLE IN GROWING OUR GAME......
What I am against is what I termed: FREE ROLL CULTURE. Please read the OP and make sure you actually understand what I mean by free roll culture before responding.
I have profits lifetime in the mid 5 figures and currently play smaller MTTs online and midstakes live when I can which is rare.
I've had winning years for 11 out of the last 12 I believe.
billbaffles
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Ive decided to never deposit again and am working on building an ACR bankroll using the all the freerolls that are offered. I already did the deposit thing when i first started out and that didnt go so well so i figure if i cannot win money by playing poker and cashing in a freeroll and then going to a micro stakes table and building it up then i shouldnt really be risking the money to play higher stakes or micro anyways because then id lose my own money. I like how freerolls offer me the chance to build a bankroll without having to use my own money and then when i play micros i create rake for the site by competing against other players who may or may not have deposited.