Folding a pair of deuces on Big Blind?

joaobrgai

joaobrgai

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Total posts
2
Chips
0
The action starts with the UTG folding, then this guy from UTG+1 shoves 2.x BBs and the UTG+2 calls, the rest of the table folds and the action goes back to me, I was unsure if I had to call it or not, first thing I thought was the Set Value theory. Which basically stands for, if you're dealt with a low pair the only hand you'll probably lead with post flop is a set and also you shouldn't invest more than 10% of your stack pre flop, which in this case would be $680. So I had to call $653, but I wasn't comfortable with a pair of deuces on that position.

In micro tournaments specially close to the bubble people shove any Ax, Kx and 77+ (suited or unsuited). So when the UTG+1 shoved, the only thing I could think of was this guy has an Ace and the chances for that Ace appear on the flop is more likely than a deuce, plus, his equity increases even more knowing that any 3+ kicker will beat me too.

With the UTG+2 calling the All-in, honestly it made my decision easier, because I didn't want to go post flop with a guy with almost as many chips as I and me holding a pair of deuces. The players equity pre flop was almost the same honestly:

  • Big Blind (me) = 30.84%
  • UTG+1 = 32.75%
  • UTG+2 = 36.41%
I was getting 19% pot odds which makes this call profitable, but still I wasn't sure about it and I decided to fold the hand. They went to the flop and it's :2s4::jh4::2c4:, imagine my face looking at that flop... Personally I think this kind of flop rarely happens specially for a pair of deuces (at least I try to comfort myself by repeating it constantly :)).

The turn is a :6d4: and the river is a :8h4: and the UTG+2 wins the pot of $3506 with Ace High. I'm just not sure if I could extract the maximum value possible from that flop, turn and/or river because I don't know if he was aggresive enough to hold post flop with Ace High.

I would like to hear your guys opinions about this hand and also feel free to see it by clicking here.

Thanks,
João Brgai.
 
vvalente

vvalente

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 18, 2017
Total posts
157
Chips
0
I play ducks from any position, but I fold in any aggressiveness or raise greater than 3x blinds. But only in the beginning of mtts or cash. I do not play ducks in advanced stages of mtt, only when I am very short and with no option
 
DougPkrMonsta

DougPkrMonsta

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Total posts
914
Awards
15
Chips
0
I throw the 650 in and see a flop getting almost 6 to 1 closing the action - you can get value from UTG+2 if you flop a set and the hand will check down enough and your deuces will be good - taken together it's worth the investment with your stack.

Making small investments trying to get a good stack is often worth it in big field MTTs because most of the money is at the top of the payouts and you have a better chance of making it there when you have more chips!

Good luck to you! :D
 
ScottieDuncan

ScottieDuncan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Total posts
1,286
Awards
1
Chips
1
Unless a huge bet or all in, I will see the flop.
 
D

don1980

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Total posts
361
Chips
0
Ah! You had over 7k in chips from the big blind position with a pair of 2's and all you had to do was call 653 more chips. That was a horrible decision to fold there.
 
wilpinsi

wilpinsi

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 11, 2013
Total posts
1,321
Chips
0
With 22, I would have paid to see the flop, after that would check, to see what would be the game, since it would , could have extracted many chips in this move, if in an another eventuality had not 2-2 on the flop,it would have option of letting go of his hand.
 
vitalii029

vitalii029

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 10, 2017
Total posts
649
Chips
0
I agree with you good post,but in online poker there are situations which are anything but logical
 
tilan501

tilan501

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Total posts
219
Awards
1
Chips
0
It's always a hand that depends on how your opponents on the table are playing, any of these lower pair must be played against people that let you see the flop, people that just pay.
 
R

rehanov

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Total posts
146
Chips
0
i always fold low pairs unless it is multi way pot to get good value for the risk because a set is always what makes u win big , i rarely call with low pair vs only 1 opponent except with agressive and bluffer opponents
 
No1eJoker

No1eJoker

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 21, 2017
Total posts
1,877
Awards
14
Chips
0
Low pair I fold every time, especially when two players play! You can not never know, what will come on the flop. I had similar situations, and I fold, that's poker!
 
K

Krzysztof Zyskowski

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 29, 2017
Total posts
8
Chips
0
bad luck but pass that was correct decision
 
A

agriggy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Total posts
356
Chips
0
You have only 1 BB to call as I understand as UTG+1 shoves 2 BB. I would call another BB as it is cheap. See the flop and see what happens. It doesn't happen often, about 17% of the time.
 
rodrigo1972

rodrigo1972

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Total posts
329
Chips
0
I would check unless somebody goes all in
 
W

wladowskii

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Total posts
4
Chips
0
Low pair I fold every time, especially when two players play! You can not never know, what will come on the flop. I had similar situations, and I fold, that's poker!
 
A

AlexTheOwl

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Total posts
860
Chips
0
I was unsure if I had to call it or not, first thing I thought was the Set Value theory. Which basically stands for, if you're dealt with a low pair the only hand you'll probably lead with post flop is a set and also you shouldn't invest more than 10% of your stack pre flop, which in this case would be $680.

Not quite.

- The guideline has to do with the effective stack, not your stack.

- It does not apply to all-in situations. The rule is intended to help ensure that you have sufficient implied odds, and there are no implied odds when your opponent is all in. One of your opponents is all in.

- It does not apply when there are multiple opponents. There is no single effective stack when you have multiple opponents.

You are being asked to call 653 chips and the pot is 3506, so your pot odds are 653 / (3506+653) = 16%.

You will make a set or better on the flop 10.5% of the time. But sometimes your opponent will check the flop, increasing your chances of making a set or better.
I think your equity and implied odds are good enough to justify a call here from a strict chipEV perspective.

The necessary information you have not given us is how close you are to the money. If you are likely to be able to just fold your way into the money, or into a significant pay jump, then ICM considerations may make it better to fold.
 
A

aleogura

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Total posts
36
Chips
0
depends on the bet that is coming, and if it is also the moment of my game if it is good I possibly call!
 
pr0serbian

pr0serbian

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Total posts
196
Chips
0
I would call 100% of the time its only one big blind call,theres no one behind me who could reraise or shove and i already put bb.If 2 didnt hit the borad and opponenet bet i would fold.And even since one player is already all in if my opponet didnt hit anything theres big chance to go check check till the showdown where i have ace high beat.And there is also posibilty to hit 2 and stack 2 playes or get alot of chips...So definity worthy call for one big blind
 
N

nittany182

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Total posts
89
Chips
0
I've been there and holding a tiny pair. Similar happened to me a couple days ago. Final table, 3 remain. Me BB holding 22, Button calls, SB raises to 2.5BB. I call. Button folds. Flop was K27 I think. I had my set, but the K was my scare card. SB raises 1/4 pot. I figure SB had AK, or KK. I call my set to see one more card. Turn was 2. I am screaming inside. I check. SB shoves, I call. He had AK.

For small pair, if the price is right, I always see the flop. You never know what will happen.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
you must call if for no other reason than you're closing the action with amazing pot odds. I didn't see stack sizes but unless something really unusual is going on at the bubble I'm literally calling any 2 cards here. I've called with 24o in a similar spot and ended up knocking out 2 players.

the fact that a short stack is all in makes it much more likely than normal that you'll realize your full equity with 22 because this pot is more likely to be checked down or at least a free card given.
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Total posts
2,250
Chips
0
At worst you are 5 loss to 1 win and you had 5 to 1 pot odds without including implied odds.It was only 1 more big blind.You made mistake not calling to see 3 cards for that cheap price. Deuces are good for set mining and maybe a C bet.
 
Anatoliy73

Anatoliy73

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Total posts
99
Chips
0
A couple of deuces I usually play to the end, but it's true not at the end of the tournament.
 
D

dpucciarelli

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Total posts
61
Chips
0
Just a BB to see flop. You should have call.
 
U

uavissar

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Total posts
129
Chips
0
you must call if for no other reason than you're closing the action with amazing pot odds. I didn't see stack sizes but unless something really unusual is going on at the bubble I'm literally calling any 2 cards here. I've called with 24o in a similar spot and ended up knocking out 2 players.

the fact that a short stack is all in makes it much more likely than normal that you'll realize your full equity with 22 because this pot is more likely to be checked down or at least a free card given.

Exactly this.
Furthermore, you should call with much worse (unless there are bubble/ICM considerations and even then usually its a call).
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
920
Awards
2
KH
Chips
33
OP, call with deuces so fast that sometimes you misclick and fold. This is a dream situation where you can see flop just for one blind. Another thing to keep in mind that first caller will play very straightforward on postflop, since there is no point in bluffing on postflop, so a lot of time you will see turn and river without problem, and if he bets you just fold. Because of this dinamics you should call very wide in similar situations.
 
Milosika1991

Milosika1991

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Total posts
355
Chips
0
I think you made a mistake, not because two 2 on the flop came out, but because you were supposed to add only 653 chips to eventually catch the set ... I would have added more than 653 chips to me without thinking in any similar situation...:rolleyes:
 
Folding in Poker
Top