Floating, BLUffing, And 3bluffing!

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

Ok, the point of this thread is to see, what I should improve more on, and what I should do less

.
Now first of've all, I also have a simple question, Is floating, when u just call, because you, A) don't believe the person and/or B) because you want to bluff the person out on a later stage?

With that being said, I'll show you all a hand, and you tell me what You would do in this hand, and Also i'm wondering if I can post more then on hand at a time but for now I'll only post 3 and we'll shall start with these hand, enjoy

pokerstars Game #19459784296: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:30:22 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: golddust888 ($76.15 in chips)
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($417.15 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($104.45 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($118.10 in chips)
VampIrishka: posts small blind $0.50
Ace_Rat_Ace: posts big blind $1
Dealt to abdi122 [5h 8h]
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: calls $1
golddust888: folds
VampIrishka: folds
Ace_Rat_Ace: raises $4 to $5
abdi122: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [6h Kd As

Now alot of you can say well with a raise i'd fold this hand automatically, but the trueth is why? I mean really why should I always get bullied my these bullies, really! Now this flop is just ugly, and I should'nt even be in this hand at all in the first place, but this dude, Ace has been doing this constatnly to me everytime he's on the button, and on my blinds all the time, and he does this move in the cut-off also, So that's why I chose to make a stand against him, just luckly for us this is the flop we get, hahahaha, should we keep on proceeding with this hand, should I have just gotten rid of it from the start, how should we act now?

The 2nd hand is this hand?
Seat 1: golddust888 ($79.15 in chips)
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($428.15 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($99 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($100.80 in chips)
abdi122: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [Ts Ah]
golddust888: folds
VampIrishka: raises $3 to $4
Ace_Rat_Ace: folds
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [5h 6c 5d]
abdi122: checks
VampIrishka: bets $6

Not much info about this guy, except I've seen ppl bully him around, so should I take the same approach to him also?

I can also Add are image on this table is Extremly tight, to the point that most hands i've folded preflop, so I also am trying to use image to our advantage at the same time, get what I mean?

and the last hand is this hand

PokerStars Game #19459929319: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:37:04 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($98 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($104 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($416.65 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($178.20 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($125.15 in chips)
abdi122: posts small blind $0.50
VampIrishka: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [2c 9d]
Ace_Rat_Ace: raises $3 to $4
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds

once again look at the name, yup the same aggressor, but this time, this hand is purely junk, is this a hand to mix it up against him or just get rid of it right there and then?

Now keep in mind I also tend to lean calling alot but sometimes I get crazy with it, also um (I've 3 bet raised like 3times in this whole game, but only with monster hands, and it usually ended up stacking so keep that in mind for the last hand)

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

Oh 1 more thing is there really a hand requirement to 3 bet? I mean do you really need a hand, that can/has potentail at all, or is any hand good for it? Ty all

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

green2cloud said:
i think everything worked out the way it should have

How so, plz explain cuz if u don't i'm going to keep on doing/making moves/calls like this constantly

SeanyJ · Aug 8, 2008

Hand #1: Raise or fold, limping that is awful. After he raises you should be folding

Hand #2: Again I'd either raise his bet or fold, if you hit an ace in this hand you have no idea where you are at. It's not like he is in a stealing position so it's likely that he has some sort of hand. That flop is the perfect flop for him to c-bet, if you wanted to make a play check raising there wouldn't be awful. Floating would be bad since you're OOP but folding there is the right play most of the time.

Hand #3 is an obvious fold.

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

SeanyJ said:
Hand #1: Raise or fold, limping that is awful. After he raises you should be folding

Hand #2: Again I'd either raise his bet or fold, if you hit an ace in this hand you have no idea where you are at. It's not like he is in a stealing position so it's likely that he has some sort of hand. That flop is the perfect flop for him to c-bet, if you wanted to make a play check raising there wouldn't be awful. Floating would be bad since you're OOP but folding there is the right play most of the time.

Hand #3 is an obvious fold.

Fair enough, I don't disagree with your observation at all, but can these aggressive players have a real hand everytime? I mean really everyhand?

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

PokerStars Game #19459784296: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:30:22 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: golddust888 ($76.15 in chips)
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($417.15 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($104.45 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($118.10 in chips)
VampIrishka: posts small blind $0.50
Ace_Rat_Ace: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [5h 8h]
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: calls $1
golddust888: folds
VampIrishka: folds
Ace_Rat_Ace: raises $4 to $5
abdi122: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [6h Kd As]
Ace_Rat_Ace: bets $7
abdi122: calls $7
*** TURN *** [6h Kd As] [2s]
Ace_Rat_Ace: checks
abdi122: bets $12
Ace_Rat_Ace: folds
Uncalled bet ($12) returned to abdi122
abdi122 collected $23.30 from pot

This is the first hand, I think I played this hand well overall, sense I felt the continuation bet was coming regardless of what the flop was, I felt the best approach was to float/call him and make my move, Even though I won this hand, is this really a profitable move in the long run, since most of my money came from moves like this today

Monoxide · Aug 8, 2008

naruto_miu said:
Ok, the point of this thread is to see, what I should improve more on, and what I should do less .
Now first of've all, I also have a simple question, Is floating, when u just call, because you, A) don't believe the person and/or B) because you want to Bluff the person out on a later stage?

With that being said, I'll show you all a hand, and you tell me what You would do in this hand, and Also i'm wondering if I can post more then on hand at a time but for now I'll only post 3 and we'll shall start with these hand, enjoy

PokerStars Game #19459784296: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:30:22 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: golddust888 ($76.15 in chips)
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($417.15 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($104.45 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($118.10 in chips)
VampIrishka: posts small blind $0.50
Ace_Rat_Ace: posts big blind $1
Dealt to abdi122 [5h 8h]
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: calls $1
golddust888: folds
VampIrishka: folds
Ace_Rat_Ace: raises $4 to $5
abdi122: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [6h Kd As

Now alot of you can say well with a raise i'd fold this hand automatically, but the trueth is why? I mean really why should I always get bullied my these bullies, really! Now this flop is just ugly, and I should'nt even be in this hand at all in the first place, but this dude, Ace has been doing this constatnly to me everytime he's on the button, and on my blinds all the time, and he does this move in the cut-off also, So that's why I chose to make a stand against him, just luckly for us this is the flop we get, hahahaha, should we keep on proceeding with this hand, should I have just gotten rid of it from the start, how should we act now?

If you are going to defend back with a hand like 58s, 3bet here strong to $16-18. If he checks on a board like this you can either fire again to about $24-$26 to rep an ace, as villian would most likely bet out strong but either way on a board like this you are not happy with your hand. Somewhat risky play overall if he doesnt fold to ur 3bet because hes a maniac.

The 2nd hand is this hand?
Seat 1: golddust888 ($79.15 in chips)
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($428.15 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($99 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($100.80 in chips)
abdi122: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [Ts Ah]
golddust888: folds
VampIrishka: raises $3 to $4
Ace_Rat_Ace: folds
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [5h 6c 5d]
abdi122: checks
VampIrishka: bets $6

Not much info about this guy, except I've seen ppl bully him around, so should I take the same approach to him also?

I can also Add are image on this table is Extremly tight, to the point that most hands i've folded preflop, so I also am trying to use image to our advantage at the same time, get what I mean?

Pretty dry board so most likely in this spot you can either flat vill here and try to improve on t/r or if a high card peels off you can rep it by leading on the turn, if he flats your turn bet then id most likely shutdown as you are behind. His range could be mid pairs or better I dont know, he *probably* will not fold unless you can improve so take this with caution.

and the last hand is this hand

PokerStars Game #19459929319: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:37:04 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($98 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($104 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($416.65 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($178.20 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($125.15 in chips)
abdi122: posts small blind $0.50
VampIrishka: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [2c 9d]
Ace_Rat_Ace: raises $3 to $4
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds

once again look at the name, yup the same aggressor, but this time, this hand is purely junk, is this a hand to mix it up against him or just get rid of it right there and then?

Now keep in mind I also tend to lean calling alot but sometimes I get crazy with it, also um (I've 3 bet raised like 3times in this whole game, but only with monster hands, and it usually ended up stacking so keep that in mind for the last hand)

Meh, ok so if you really want to try to bully him back here in this spot, you gotta understand that your hand has very little equity to improve on the flop and beyond so its purely a bluff. This guy is the same guy from hand 1.... do you think he will fold to a 3bet here? Do you can push him off anything if he flop even bottom pair?

Id just toss this junk hand, occasionally if you do want to mix it up, pick a hand that could improve to something that could potentially spike a good draw.

Heres what I think! My opinions could be totally different if I had more to work with, im just labelling ur opponents as your describe them.

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

No your actually correct on everything so far, but as I as stated above I had A) Image to work with, because everytime my hands went to showdown I had the goods, not once did I get caught bluffing, and B) The calling aspect to my game is what made many players think twice about calling me as they would recall the previous encounters they had with me

PokerStars Game #19459929319: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:37:04 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($98 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($104 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($416.65 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($178.20 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($125.15 in chips)
abdi122: posts small blind $0.50
VampIrishka: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [2c 9d]
Ace_Rat_Ace: raises $3 to $4
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: raises $7.50 to $11.50
VampIrishka: folds
Ace_Rat_Ace: folds
Uncalled bet ($7.50) returned to abdi122
abdi122 collected $9 from pot
abdi122: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9 | Rake $0
Seat 2: VampIrishka (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace folded before Flop
Seat 4: Franz6 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: JaySick88 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: abdi122 (small blind) collected ($9)

This is how I played the 29 hand, figured it was time to reraise and try this out once again, because i've been dead for sometime and the last 3 times I had made this move it was with AA/KK/AA, so ya that's how it worked out this time, not to mention they were getting on my nerves with there constant raising bs

zachvac · Aug 8, 2008

naruto_miu said:
Fair enough, I don't disagree with your observation at all, but can these aggressive players have a real hand everytime? I mean really everyhand?

This is bad logic, and something I had a lot of trouble with moving up. I'd be floating all over the place, 3-bet bluffing postflop, etc.

Now granted I play FR where it's a bit less aggressive in general than 6max, but 58 is just not a hand you want to be flatting in this situation. Too many better players will double barrel you, and if you start doing this too consistently they may even start check-raising the flop.

OK I'll go over what my thoughts are on the hands:

1. Horrible preflop imo, raise it up or at least fold to a raise that will put you oop. But if you have some need to limp-call 58 suited oop, this is definitely not the spot/flop for a move. You're oop and will not be able to control the pot size, you'll be at an extreme disadvantage, especially if he is relatively aggressive, and you have complete shit. The only move I like here on the flop is the check-raise, but even that I think is just spewy. Fold preflop, but if you're not going to that, fold it postflop. You want to make 99% of your moves in position, and most with decent equity. All you've got is backdoor flush, straight, and 2 pair draws.

2. AT oop is a pretty easy fold preflop imo, but after calling here this is definitely the one spot where oop I think a check-raise is a decent move. He's got air a good amount of the time, there are a ton of scary turn cards you can double barrel, and it's pretty unlikely he hit anything. So postflop I do like a check-raise a decent amount of the time, but again, playing AT oop is overall pretty much going to be a losing play.

3. Light 3-bets are fine, but first off this guy's UTG and unless you think he's an absolute maniac he's probably raising a bit tighter UTG. Second off your hand is terrible, you literally are only playing on getting him to fold. If you had a hand like 56s or 55 I would like a light 3-bet a lot more. But he's UTG, you'll be oop postflop, and you have total trash. Light 3-betting these guys is fine, but pick a better spot.

naruto_miu · Aug 8, 2008

And this is how the A/10 hand played out, there were many reason why I did this, I really believed I can make him fold his A/ W/E if an ace doesn't hit, and I also believed that his raise was just auto raise, something that's bound to happen constantly and I was correct, So should I keep floating ppl, and raising with bunk not as bad as 29 mind you but I think this was also another good move

PokerStars Game #19459729692: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/08/08 - 14:27:54 (ET)
Table 'Stentor II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: golddust888 ($79.15 in chips)
Seat 2: VampIrishka ($100 in chips)
Seat 3: Ace_Rat_Ace ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Franz6 ($428.15 in chips)
Seat 5: JaySick88 ($99 in chips)
Seat 6: abdi122 ($100.80 in chips)
JaySick88: posts small blind $0.50
abdi122: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to abdi122 [Ts Ah]
golddust888: folds
VampIrishka: raises $3 to $4
Ace_Rat_Ace: folds
Franz6: folds
JaySick88: folds
abdi122: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [5h 6c 5d]
abdi122: checks
VampIrishka: bets $6
abdi122: calls $6
*** TURN *** [5h 6c 5d] [9s]
abdi122: checks
VampIrishka: checks
*** RIVER *** [5h 6c 5d 9s] [Kc]
abdi122: bets $12
VampIrishka: folds
Uncalled bet ($12) returned to abdi122
abdi122 collected $19.50 from pot
abdi122: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***

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Floating, BLUffing, And 3bluffing!

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