Double or Nothing 6-man SNGs

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Sori

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What is a solid win rate for these double or nothing SNGs? I usually play the $3.30 but also play the $1 and $5 ones as well. I'm not sure what my goal should be in terms of winning percentage.

Also, here are my general hand selections by position. Obviously they change based on table dynamics, stack sizes, and number of players left. But this is my general guide at the beginning of the tournament. Too tight? Too loose?

EP: JJ+/A10+
MP: EP + mid pocket pairs
LP: All pairs + any 2 broadway + suited connectors

Lastly, is it possible to crush these games or will you at best me marginally profitable? Thanks.
 
FryGuy14

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I have played them and they aren't that hard. Your hand range looks pretty good. Make sure you play these aggressively. Once it gets later in the tourney tighten up in all positions if you are near the lead in chips and let the bottom guys fight it out. It will take some time to turn a real profit, but after awhile you should develop a decent bankroll.
 
dwbrown7680

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It's possible to crush them as I've seen a few players do that on Stars. You're gonna wanna shoot for somewhere between 10-15% ROI to make it worth your while I think.
 
jolubman

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I just can't beat these no matter what the limit up to $5.00. I can't seem to get passed the rake.
 
dwbrown7680

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You have to win 60% just to beat the rake so.....
 
marvingubba

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60% win rate as breakeven is overstating it a bit. Not much though.
It could depend on the rake percentage. I've been playing them on Merge where they take 8% in addition to the buy-in for a 54% breakeven.
But 60% is a realistic minimally acceptable win rate.

I've been on the $1 to $3 tables mostly and have had decent success. Doubled my stack on one site and nearly have enough to play at the $5 tables.
I didn't really notice a big difference in play moving from the $2 to the $3 tables, but I'm certain the smaller tables just have to be softer. It would be great if the $100 tables played the same!
 
dwbrown7680

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Yeah I figured I would use 60% as a benchmark. You don't really wanna float any lower than that or you risk falling below breakeven. Of course rakeback affects all of this in the end.
 
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gsxr5221

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Yeah I figured I would use 60% as a benchmark. You don't really wanna float any lower than that or you risk falling below breakeven. Of course rakeback affects all of this in the end.

always

The $5s aren't much different from the $3s and I've only played a few 10s at this point but they seemed to play very similar to the 5s...However I mainly play other sngs than the don's and I have just gotten over 300games in on my bcp account atm where I play my sngs (play too much damn live poker lol)
 
dmorris68

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Where are you playing 6-max DONs? Cake? Or is this at a non-US site?

Unless they've reversed course recently and I've missed it, Merge doesn't spread 6-max DONs anymore. They killed them months ago. I used to play decent volume of these and with rakeback and a 70+% winrate which was super easy to hit, they were a money machine. I played up to the $80's -- Merge only opened one $50 and one $80 at a time so for a typical session I would 4-table the $30's while waiting for the $50 and $80 to fill. I found the $80's really no more difficult than the $30's, in fact a lot of the same regs played them all as I did. I miss those dearly, as the 10-seat games are slower to fill, slower to play, and the variance is higher. My winrate in them isn't nearly as high.
 
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I've been playing these on BetOnline. I'm not sure if it's my play but I have been experiencing high variance in these games. I feel like these games should have pretty low variance so I didn't really get why.

Having a 60% winrate gives you a profit of $1 for every 10 $1 games. So it isn't quite breakeven but yea I see what you guys are getting at.
 
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sagiPOTM

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every winning percentage is good while your bank roll goes up, but u shuld aim to win (stay in last 3 if 6 mand double up) at least 7/10 games of same buy in.

Tactic that you presented is to simple for over the long runs, every game is diferent especially when double up comes to the last player that have to go out, so u have to adapt every game u play on the bast way...
 
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I'm right there with you, playing the 6 player double-ups at Cake. A slow process, but wise play creates an opportunity to build a bankroll. I've found if I fail to double-up twice in a row, better to call it a day. Real easy to go tilt while playing these low buy-in tourneys and blow the small bankroll you're nursing!
 
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every winning percentage is good while your bank roll goes up, but u shuld aim to win (stay in last 3 if 6 mand double up) at least 7/10 games of same buy in.

Tactic that you presented is to simple for over the long runs, every game is diferent especially when double up comes to the last player that have to go out, so u have to adapt every game u play on the bast way...

Lol, you won't get close to that. I don't even play these games and I know as much.
 
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Find me one person with a significant sample size and a 70% win rate. SS as many regs as you like, nobody has that sort of win rate.

Edit: this was a reply to a comment that has disappeared.
 
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dmorris68

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Find me one person with a significant sample size and a 70% win rate. SS as many regs as you like, nobody has that sort of win rate.
You said yourself you don't play them. So how can you categorically state that?

There have been a number of discussions of DON winrates here and at 2+2 and you'll find a lot of people with 70+% winrates. Remember you have to have better than 50% just to break even (not counting rakeback). If there were never any winners in these games nobody would be playing them.

SS is pretty meaningless, because unless a person ONLY plays DONs you have no idea what are DONs versus SNGs.

Trust me, 70% is sustainable, I've done it in the 6-max games before they were gone. For 10-max, it's quite a bit tougher to do due to higher variance and also my own patience factor (when used to 6-max, 10-max is unbearable). But believe what you like.

I deleted my post immediately after submitting it because it's not the type of post I typically like to make. But since you were quick enough to catch it before I deleted it, I'll continue the conversation.
 
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SS leaderboard, type: DON. That shows the top winners in DON and excludes any other format so yes you can look up purely DON.

You said yourself your sample size was insignificant so you can't really use yourself as an example.
 
dmorris68

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1000-1200 6-max games isn't a huge sample by any means, but I wouldn't call it insignificant either. 100 is insignificant. I'm fully aware of what sample size means, thanks, and I stand by my assertion. But believe what you like.

Oh, and tell me how the SS Leaderboards filter DONs from a player's results? Click on a leaderboard player name and you get his full results, not filtered by DON -- same as if you had just searched for his name. Unless I'm looking at something completely different than you. I see no way that SS can filter results by DON, so unless that's all a player has ever played, you can't get reliable DON winrates from that.

Oh, and even better. The DON/Fifty50 leaderboard consists entirely of pokerstars players and are thus Fifty50 games. Which are NOT the same as DONs in terms of winrate. Finish position matters in Fifty50's, not in DONs.

Nor does it distinguish 6-max from 10-max. So using SS as any basis for your argument is flawed in too many ways to count.
 
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jaxpaboo

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I find the turbo 6 player DONs to be full of passive players. With 6 players there really isn't a EP. I've been playing Bovada since BF.

Oh.. and bodog's $10 6player turbos only have $.50 rake added. Best deal on site.

Early:
- Preflop raise 3x (even if you had a limper). A8s+, pairs.
- Flop 1/2 pot continuation bet even if out of position headsup or 3way in position. You will see lots of folding from opponents. Few of them float, especially when they initially limped. 1/2 pot seems as powerful at pot sized bets for some reason in turbo DONs.
- If you hit flop, then fire 1/2 pot on turn as well. Otherwise give up. Way too early, no reason to spew chips or gamble at this point in tournament. Only gamble late.

Late:
50-100 stage, started with 1500 chips.
With <1500, all in or fold preflop: Suited Aces, A8+, pair, broadways to open or if limper in front of you. If someone else raises... all in with 10s+, AK, else fold.

With 2000+: Tighten up. 3x preflop raise, but don't get attached.

With 3000+: Play like a rock. You will be able to almost fold to money 1/2 the time. Let the shorties battle it out. Don't be the table captain or hero to try to knock players out. Very easy to fold 10s and under and fold AQ and AJ to preflop allin from a 1000ish stack in this spot.
 
T-Dubs82

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it is completely illogical but it almost seems that they fields are softer in the higher buy in sngs in the double ups
 
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