donkey play?

easypickns

easypickns

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Is there any word that is more misused online than donkey? An ak shove into an under board is not a donkey play. I define a donkey play as playing suited trash eg. j3 into a 3bet let alone a 4 bet. What say you? Can we come up with other words for over aggressive play or even bad play. Let's be creative; that was a "seed"y play or a "dwanner". I know the genius is here to solve this dilemma. Please help.:confused:
 
IntenseHeat

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Donkey (donk)-
My understanding of the term donkey, has always been that is is a player that is too stubborn, like a donkey or mule, to lay down a hand when they should realize that they are beat. It not necassarily the hand that makes you a donkey, it's the way you play it. A donkey might call call a 3-bet with Q-Q (which is reasonable). But then refuse to lay down to a huge bet when the flop comes A-A-K, because he's too stubborn to admit that his Qs are probably beat.

Monkey (monk)-
This is a term I use to refer to individuals who thrown chips around like a zoo monkey throwing crap for his own amusement. For example, the guy who calls my pre-flop raise, check/calls when the flop comes A-4-8, check/calls when the K hits on the turn, then shoves all-in on the river when a 2 hits. Of course when I call this freaking idiot with A-K, he shows 9-6 offsuit.
 
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easypickns

easypickns

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Phil calls people donkeys when they play q 10 off. But I like your analysis. It does make sense but most of the time online i hear people using the term to refer to low % plays.
 
shinedown.45

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Is there any word that is more misused online than donkey?
I play COD and the first think that came to mind was "camper" and just as for "camper", I find the use of "donkey" redundant
 
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A poker donkey does some or all of these:
1. Plays plus 40% of hands
2. Has no positional awareness - UTG and button are terms that mean nothing to them
3. Will Play any ace-rag hand (an ace-master) or any suited hand (flush masters)
4. Has a very low PFR (pre-flop raise percentage) compared to the percentage of hands they play and checks and calls most streets instead of folding & raising
5. Does not understand RELATIVE hand strength - ex. will call all the way to the river and play for stacks with 2 pair on a 4-flush board without one of that suit
In summary: they play loose and passive, are pay-off monkeys, and seldom extract enough value out of their good hands. There lines make absolutely no sense and they bluff when their opponent is obviously strong. They are ATM's. Don't berate them (don't tap on the aquarium). Play long enough and u will get their money. Don't bluff a lot - value-bet the socks off em'
 
BLACKSTACK

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A poker donkey does some or all of these:
1. Plays plus 40% of hands
2. Has no positional awareness - UTG and button are terms that mean nothing to them
3. Will Play any ace-rag hand (an ace-master) or any suited hand (flush masters)
4. Has a very low PFR (pre-flop raise percentage) compared to the percentage of hands they play and checks and calls most streets instead of folding & raising
5. Does not understand RELATIVE hand strength - ex. will call all the way to the river and play for stacks with 2 pair on a 4-flush board without one of that suit
In summary: they play loose and passive, are pay-off monkeys, and seldom extract enough value out of their good hands. There lines make absolutely no sense and they bluff when their opponent is obviously strong. They are ATM's. Don't berate them (don't tap on the aquarium). Play long enough and u will get their money. Don't bluff a lot - value-bet the socks off em'

Damn all of those fit me perfectly.
1.2 cards are all i need to win and hate to mis a full boat whne folding 49
2.if its cheap il donk in,if i get raised after limping,il just fold or donk it all in
3.aces are the best even with low or unconnected,might flop 2 pair with a7
4.dont want to scare everyone away raising with my a7
5.2 pair beats a 4 card flush,now if on the river i get the 5th same suit,ill go all in to scare away everyone and brag that i had 2 pair
 
vinylspiros

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Damn all of those fit me perfectly.
1.2 cards are all i need to win and hate to mis a full boat whne folding 49
2.if its cheap il donk in,if i get raised after limping,il just fold or donk it all in
3.aces are the best even with low or unconnected,might flop 2 pair with a7
4.dont want to scare everyone away raising with my a7
5.2 pair beats a 4 card flush,now if on the river i get the 5th same suit,ill go all in to scare away everyone and brag that i had 2 pair
dude god bless u.u had me laughing cause i have exactly the same thoughts sometimes. hahahhaaha
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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"An ak shove into an under board is not a donkey play"

Care to explain why not?

To some extent it depends on stack sizes, and if your only chucking in say £2 into a £10 pot its not terrible. But if you shove £9 into a £5 pot its freaking awful.

When you shove AK into a low pot, what worse hands do you expect to call?

And before you say draws. Look at this.

AcKh 52%
TcQc 48%

2c5c8h

Basically when people shove AK into a small pot, they are pretty much saying "I dont really know what to do next, and I sure dont want to fold this lovely starting hand, so im just going to shove and hope"

I love seeing people lose when they shove AK at air. Its like they get punished for being stupid. Why shove when a strong continuation bet will work for much less risk.
 
vinylspiros

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Just try not to have those thoughts when you make your 1.3k deposit :eek:
definitely not man and thanks for the advice.i agree with you 100%. ill try not to do it too many times . i know its not ev+ but if i see im on a roll and im winning big ,i tend to make loose calls but not take them too far unless i hit realy good.
 
sam1chips

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A poker donkey does some or all of these:
1. Plays plus 40% of hands
2. Has no positional awareness - UTG and button are terms that mean nothing to them
3. Will Play any ace-rag hand (an ace-master) or any suited hand (flush masters)
4. Has a very low PFR (pre-flop raise percentage) compared to the percentage of hands they play and checks and calls most streets instead of folding & raising
5. Does not understand RELATIVE hand strength - ex. will call all the way to the river and play for stacks with 2 pair on a 4-flush board without one of that suit
In summary: they play loose and passive, are pay-off monkeys, and seldom extract enough value out of their good hands. There lines make absolutely no sense and they bluff when their opponent is obviously strong. They are ATM's. Don't berate them (don't tap on the aquarium). Play long enough and u will get their money. Don't bluff a lot - value-bet the socks off em'

That last part is key. Do not berate them! (Haha, or as you say, don't tap on the aquarium). They are gonna suck out on you at some point, when they play that % of flops then its just going to happen. Just sit there quietly, play 1000 hands with them, and watch your bankroll go up :)
 
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Sam u said it all just keep playing with them,its only a matter of time before a good players takes a poor players chips! Sure we've all had good and bad days but that is why they call it poker ! Some poeple have luck some have skill what you have to watch out for is the skilled lucky player the rest just sit back and watch their chipps slid to your side of the table!
 
easypickns

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The replies seem to reveal the problem. As the term is used for some it defines any silly play,trash play or over aggressive play while for others it is limited to stubborn play. I will be interested to hear the response to our fellow poster's ? about the origin of the word and the original meaning versus the generic statement it has become. Also in mtt's you cant always wait for someone to donk out as you can in cash games.
 
easypickns

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"An ak shove into an under board is not a donkey play"

Care to explain why not?

To some extent it depends on stack sizes, and if your only chucking in say £2 into a £10 pot its not terrible. But if you shove £9 into a £5 pot its freaking awful.

When you shove AK into a low pot, what worse hands do you expect to call?

And before you say draws. Look at this.

AcKh 52%
TcQc 48%

2c5c8h

Basically when people shove AK into a small pot, they are pretty much saying "I dont really know what to do next, and I sure dont want to fold this lovely starting hand, so im just going to shove and hope"

I love seeing people lose when they shove AK at air. Its like they get punished for being stupid. Why shove when a strong continuation bet will work for much less risk.
I have found in $1 and $2 tourneys if I am going to semi- bluff with ak I am better off to shove or put them ai or a marginal hand will come back over the top or call with a gutshot draw because they are playing bingo not poker.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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Yes, you will get marginal hands to fold, but you would get marginal hands to fold with a pot bet.

As soon as you get called, your getting knocked out aside from 6 outs hitting, thats assuming they are calling with just one pair, if they have better your busto.

Better to play bingo than to play shove and hope.
 
easypickns

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Well you raise and fold, I do not choose to play that way. If I have overs I will make a cont. bet. In position sometimes a min bet or pot bet will get them to fold or set them up to fold. Again the discussion was not about the play, it was about people referring to any and every thing as a donkey play. We should have more creative terms. Personally I think playing suited trash(e.g j6)or garbage hands are donkey calls esp. oop, in a 3 bet or 4bet situation.
 
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A lot of good definitions here...

I start my definition with the players that won't get away from any pair - even if it is 2nd or 3rd pair on the board - with flush and/or straight cards on the board. How they can continue to call bets in those scenarios....
 
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