Poof
Made in the USA
Silver Level
I was just wondering, I have heard the urban legends of poker bots at the tables. Does anyone know if they exist for real?
1
1122phoenix
Rock Star
Silver Level
They sure do. Do google search 'poker unibomber agent orange' - this was an example of a specific heads up program. If it could beat Phil think of what one could do to the average player and this was a couple of years ago. Now, is there one on line ? Probably will be soon, if not already.
zachvac
Legend
Silver Level
This type of bot does not exist. Others do. They are all illegal and sites have methods of detection. If they get caught their account will be closed and funds will be seized.
smokin-aces
Rock Star
Silver Level
Unless were talking Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet, in that case the accounts wont get closed or frozen until it becomes a PR issue
martygokona
Rock Star
Silver Level
I believe that i've seen them in action on micro cash game tables. the seem to rebuy for 10 cents and make quick "nh" replies. Not sure about larger money games. Seems like they would have to be extrememly advanced to do any good. But, yes.. I think they exist.
Aloha
Aloha
J
jvtelemark
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Of course they exist
Some people on my normal forum have a discussion for some weeks now, but the biggest problem so far is that the quality arent any good, I mean they play to "expecting", they are good but they have some weaknesses.
Whenever you see people offering cash if you send them your hand histories, PLEASE dont send them, no matter how good their intention might be, this is very often a scam in order to build up the bots database, I have seen questions on a lot of forums involving this matter, and if people send them their hand history the bots will only be "stronger".
My prediction is that in a year or two, the pokersites will be forced to do some serious action against bots, so far they are more or less avoiding the problems, but at present time its not a big enough problem.
Some sites like poker stars are taking this problem very seriously, but they are rather hard to detect if the person behing the bot dont get too greedy
Some people on my normal forum have a discussion for some weeks now, but the biggest problem so far is that the quality arent any good, I mean they play to "expecting", they are good but they have some weaknesses.
Whenever you see people offering cash if you send them your hand histories, PLEASE dont send them, no matter how good their intention might be, this is very often a scam in order to build up the bots database, I have seen questions on a lot of forums involving this matter, and if people send them their hand history the bots will only be "stronger".
My prediction is that in a year or two, the pokersites will be forced to do some serious action against bots, so far they are more or less avoiding the problems, but at present time its not a big enough problem.
Some sites like poker stars are taking this problem very seriously, but they are rather hard to detect if the person behing the bot dont get too greedy
H
happyglen
Rising Star
Silver Level
There is a lot of online corruption that a player needs to over come but if you love to play like me you are willing to chance it. It's like the wildwest. Untill the poker industry get regulated then many of these issue will persist, but I think some of the problems will never be able to be resolved.
bustermoves
Visionary
Silver Level
just goggled poker bots,over 600000 results.also goggled poker cheats.also over 600000 results.i would have to say they are out there.seems like i remember something about bots being used most frequently at 10/20 nl tables.if your gonna cheat, why cheat for pennies.only problem someone using them might encounter,is getting caught.then you can kiss your online poker career good bye.forever.
SavagePenguin
Put the win in penguin
Bronze Level
Bots exist.
Have you ever played poker game against computer players? You *should* be able to beat the computer most of the time. And those are professionally done and constructed with advice from poker pros.
Poker bots make their money by exploiting bad players. They can play a lot of tables at once for huge chunks of time. Against bad players they make a small profit that builds up due to volume.
poker sites have methods for detecting bots which they may or may not use.
I know pokerstars will pop a verification code up on the screen if they detect suspicious activity. You have to enter the code to continue playing.
Hevad Kahn was even banned from PokerStars early in his playing career because they suspected that he was a bot. He created a video to show that he was actually playing all those tables, so they let him back on. Now he's a PokerStars Pro.
Have you ever played poker game against computer players? You *should* be able to beat the computer most of the time. And those are professionally done and constructed with advice from poker pros.
Poker bots make their money by exploiting bad players. They can play a lot of tables at once for huge chunks of time. Against bad players they make a small profit that builds up due to volume.
poker sites have methods for detecting bots which they may or may not use.
I know pokerstars will pop a verification code up on the screen if they detect suspicious activity. You have to enter the code to continue playing.
Hevad Kahn was even banned from PokerStars early in his playing career because they suspected that he was a bot. He created a video to show that he was actually playing all those tables, so they let him back on. Now he's a PokerStars Pro.
starfall
Visionary
Silver Level
I've little doubt bots exist. However, if they mix up their play, then they'll not be playing straight tight aggressive poker, and may have holes. If they just play standard tight poker, then they should be easy to avoid losing money to... the simple fact is that most of what I've seen about poker bots suggests that they lose money. If you sat a simple one at a really loose table, then it might do OK.
What surprises me is that they mainly seem to be Holdem bots, wherease Omaha and Stud seem like better choices for one. Still, if I get someone playing really tight, then I'll avoid putting a lot of money in the pot if they want action, whether a bot or a real player I don't care. I haven't seen much sign of them being an issue. Tight players can make small profits, but some of the best profits come from playing the other players, and that takes a level of sophistication above that of most AIs.
If someone had bots playing that communicated their hole cards to each other to actively collude, then they might get a noticeable.
Personally, I'd see more reason to use a bot on a backgammon site or the like, or one that plays out your bonuses on casino sites...
What surprises me is that they mainly seem to be Holdem bots, wherease Omaha and Stud seem like better choices for one. Still, if I get someone playing really tight, then I'll avoid putting a lot of money in the pot if they want action, whether a bot or a real player I don't care. I haven't seen much sign of them being an issue. Tight players can make small profits, but some of the best profits come from playing the other players, and that takes a level of sophistication above that of most AIs.
If someone had bots playing that communicated their hole cards to each other to actively collude, then they might get a noticeable.
Personally, I'd see more reason to use a bot on a backgammon site or the like, or one that plays out your bonuses on casino sites...
A
Adventurebound2
Legend
Silver Level
I used to play a lot at Bugsy's and they would put 3 to 5 of them in a freeroll game. each with it's own bonus bounty on them. They added fun to the game, a freeroll so no one is out anything if their bot won. I collected the bounties many times.
After seeing some articles about illeagle bots I wonder, were they totaly legit as the site said or used to develop better bots? The site has a lot less players now than it did back when I played there. Hmmm, conspiracy theory thoughts.....
After seeing some articles about illeagle bots I wonder, were they totaly legit as the site said or used to develop better bots? The site has a lot less players now than it did back when I played there. Hmmm, conspiracy theory thoughts.....
K
KidMoe
Enthusiast
Silver Level
How I Built a Working Poker Bot, Part 1 - Coding the Wheel
This guy has been writing a series which lays out the framework to create a bot. You really only need a couple years of C experience and good knowledge of whatever OS you code in.
Its interesting because he does not code his bot to win (not that it would be a negative), he codes it so the bot is good enough to break even. With rakeback programs and FPP and the such he can make thousands of dollars a year.
In part two (How I Built a Working Online Poker Bot, Part 2: Interlude - Coding the Wheel) he gives an example
"If you do the math, you'll find it comes out to around 1.65 million hands per year. If your bot is playing anything other than the microlimits, this is easily enough to qualify you for (just as an example) the Poker Stars Supernova Elite promotion, which when properly liquidated is worth around seventy or eighty thousand dollars the year you achieve it, and two or three times that amount the following year (because of the multiplier effect of FPP bonuses)."
So yes this exist and it seems they exist in high numbers. I think as long as there are no colluding swarms (which I also think exist), bots are not too much of a problem since they will just play good hands and try to classify you as a certain type of player to make decisions.
BTW my first post, glad to be part of the community.
This guy has been writing a series which lays out the framework to create a bot. You really only need a couple years of C experience and good knowledge of whatever OS you code in.
Its interesting because he does not code his bot to win (not that it would be a negative), he codes it so the bot is good enough to break even. With rakeback programs and FPP and the such he can make thousands of dollars a year.
In part two (How I Built a Working Online Poker Bot, Part 2: Interlude - Coding the Wheel) he gives an example
"If you do the math, you'll find it comes out to around 1.65 million hands per year. If your bot is playing anything other than the microlimits, this is easily enough to qualify you for (just as an example) the Poker Stars Supernova Elite promotion, which when properly liquidated is worth around seventy or eighty thousand dollars the year you achieve it, and two or three times that amount the following year (because of the multiplier effect of FPP bonuses)."
So yes this exist and it seems they exist in high numbers. I think as long as there are no colluding swarms (which I also think exist), bots are not too much of a problem since they will just play good hands and try to classify you as a certain type of player to make decisions.
BTW my first post, glad to be part of the community.
zachvac
Legend
Silver Level
umm, if this is true this guy's an idiot. Why would he put it online? Assuming it's illegal on the site he's playing on this is easy to catch. I don't believe he's able to build a bot that does better than break-even. Hell tons of players have enough trouble, and if he's doing it at something "other than the microlimits" it's not easy to come up with an algorithm to beat even a 1/2+ game (considering I'm only at .50/1 and it's hard enough to win there using all sorts of reads/moves and I can only assume it gets tougher as it goes up). If a simple algorithm could be acheived to just break even, more players would just be able to follow it and win.
shinedown.45
Legend
Silver Level
1-Bots are not on micro-tables(if they do exist)
2-(as mentioned before) Poker sites have a way of detecting them.
3-Pokersites do not have their own bots at the table(not the more reputable ones anyway), why would they want to steal your money when they already take it with the rake.
*This response was artificially generated by a bot*
2-(as mentioned before) Poker sites have a way of detecting them.
3-Pokersites do not have their own bots at the table(not the more reputable ones anyway), why would they want to steal your money when they already take it with the rake.
*This response was artificially generated by a bot*
Makwa
Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
Yes there are bots out there.. no doubt.
I'm hoping that most of the bots and crooked insider play is aimed at holdem -- sorry guys -- and to feel safer I like to play stud, horse, omaha hi lo and other games that most programmers are not focusing on (yet, I hope).
Bots don't scare me, their play is predictable. Crooked play like at AP and UB (see recent scandals), and other sites, is something you can't beat if they get their hooks into you...
I'm hoping that most of the bots and crooked insider play is aimed at holdem -- sorry guys -- and to feel safer I like to play stud, horse, omaha hi lo and other games that most programmers are not focusing on (yet, I hope).
Bots don't scare me, their play is predictable. Crooked play like at AP and UB (see recent scandals), and other sites, is something you can't beat if they get their hooks into you...