Decisive factor

topper39

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Hi,
While I was playing SNGs yesterday I came across one strange thing about which I still feel kind of dumbfounded. It was 6max hyper-turbo satellite. There were three players left (including me) with top two to win an entry, so it was on the bubble. One of my opponents had a bigstack while I and the other guy had exactly the same amount of chips. BTN (guy with the same stack) shoved, I called from SB and bigstack overcalled us and eventually won the hand. So I checked the tourney lobby to find myself placed as a bubble boy, on third place. I'm wondering why..
I guess it's not a thing that would happen very often, but when it does, it could make quite crucial difference, so I'm sure it has to have some rules.
The only thing came to my mind was that it might be determined by strenght of losing hands (as I was beaten by both of them - i.e. guy with the same stack had the second best hand), but it seems weird to me.
Does anyone have any idea on what is decisive in such cases? If you think it's strenght of losing hand as well, then what would be decisive in case where two same-stacked guys have even the same losing hand?
 
MediaBLITZ

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He had the button would be another possible way. What site?
 
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cotta777

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Not sure if this is what you mean but if all players are in big stack wins both players lose and the strongest hand out of the losing two finishes higher in a sit n go.

and same losing hand big stacks small stack get even equivalent to his investment off both and they split the left over pot
 
D

dasher

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When two players go out on the same hand (even with multiple tables when play is hand-to-hand), the order is determined by the stack sizes at the beginning of the hand. Are you sure you had EXACTLY the same number of chips? Because one chip would put him ahead.
 
topper39

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dasher said:
When two players go out on the same hand (even with multiple tables when play is hand-to-hand), the order is determined by the stack sizes at the beginning of the hand. Are you sure you had EXACTLY the same number of chips? Because one chip would put him ahead.
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm absolutely sure..
In the case you're talking about it is clear and it actually happens quite frequently. The thing is how it's determined in special case I've described above.
 
Cephas

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Contact FTP for an explanation. It might have to do with playing position. If anything it is strange. It has to be a default setting in the "random" dealer.

Oh yea, one more thing. Why play hyperturbos? Those are pure luck. Just curious.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Yeah it would be based on stack sizes, but if you had exact to the chip I'm sure something else is next on the list to determine who got 3rd. If you have the hand history showing you both had exact same chips could always email ftp to find out what determined you goin out in 3rd. UL there but in that situation unless you had at least AA or KK I would be folding in hopes that the bigstack would do what he did and win my ticket for me :D
 
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Are you sure you have the same stack with the other guy? The program should not fail. It should be divided by both of you the remaining ticket. There should be a heads up play for that 1 ticket.
 
BearPlay

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I've seen it go both ways, to where equal stacks would split the prize on their exit, and I've seen it go to where the prize is awarded to the one first in the pot. I think it may be site-dependent, but I'm also curious as to the surety of the chip stacks being equal size. That's kind of rare ;)
 
ccocco

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3 players leaving, some recommend being aggressive as none wants to go unrewarded .. it all depends on what type of player you are and how are the villains ... is a delicate situation because you're about to win a ticket, I would leave out for instinct. lol
 
10058765

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Might be this, you paid the SB, so when the cards were dealt, your stack was lower than button's stack, placing you third.
After all, what you paid for the SB isn't yours anymore.

I'm curious to hear the exact explanation tho.
 
zegaum

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1. Perhaps, in this case where the chips were tied, it who makes the first bet. Ie the BTN bet (all-in) and is therefore the most aggressive (?), Putting his chips in and paying the game.

2. perhaps, in the melee, his letters were better (it exists?).

But it is a good discussion, and know why it even happened.
 
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It's probably position in relation to the dealer button that determines it. That's the way it's done to break a tie as to who gets the extra chip in a split pot where the pot can't be divided equally so why not do it the same way in this case?
 
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Cephas said:
Contact FTP for an explanation. It might have to do with playing position. If anything it is strange. It has to be a default setting in the "random" dealer.

Oh yea, one more thing. Why play hyperturbos? Those are pure luck. Just curious.
Click to expand...

you sure about that? because I can find you several players that have made hundreds of thousands from high stake hyper turbos.

the variance is painful and the edge is usually very small maintaining a winning record before rake back at any reasonable level is usually impressive but several have 1-3% at the highest levels.

there is a team pokerstars player who plays these almost exclusively I rail him quite a bit to try and learn. I know hes putting a lot of effort into these and have even read an article about him targeting these and his aims.

im pretty sure he would disagree with you.
 
Matt Vaughan

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I'm shocked at how many people have no idea about this situation...

If you had the exact same number of chips, but different hands, then the one of you that had the worst hand takes the worst position - pretty straightforward. The only time you'd have to start thinking about these weird other options is if you had identical stacks and identical hands at showdown, and you both lost to the big stack.

Not sure why that seems so weird to you OP? What would the outcome have been if the big stack had had a worse hand? You still would have been beaten by the other guy, and still knocked out. Same for if the big stack hadn't called.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Scourrge said:
I'm shocked at how many people have no idea about this situation...

If you had the exact same number of chips, but different hands, then the one of you that had the worst hand takes the worst position - pretty straightforward. The only time you'd have to start thinking about these weird other options is if you had identical stacks and identical hands at showdown, and you both lost to the big stack.

Not sure why that seems so weird to you OP? What would the outcome have been if the big stack had had a worse hand? You still would have been beaten by the other guy, and still knocked out. Same for if the big stack hadn't called.
Click to expand...

LOL, +1 I never even thought about which of them had the better hand in my response although as I stated in my response OP should have folded anyhow :D.

bit of a duh moment after reading your post haha.
 
BearPlay

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BluffMeAllIn said:
LOL, +1 I never even thought about which of them had the better hand in my response although as I stated in my response OP should have folded anyhow :D.

bit of a duh moment after reading your post haha.
Click to expand...


Doh, me too. Wow. We should all be put in poker time-out for our Lemmings replies ;)
 
Cephas

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LukeSilver said:
you sure about that? because I can find you several players that have made hundreds of thousands from high stake hyper turbos.

the variance is painful and the edge is usually very small maintaining a winning record before rake back at any reasonable level is usually impressive but several have 1-3% at the highest levels.

there is a team pokerstars player who plays these almost exclusively I rail him quite a bit to try and learn. I know hes putting a lot of effort into these and have even read an article about him targeting these and his aims.

im pretty sure he would disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Well that is just my opinion with my experiences. I still think hypers are based more on luck than poker skill. Just my opinion.
 
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topper39 said:
Hi,
While I was playing SNGs yesterday I came across one strange thing about which I still feel kind of dumbfounded. It was 6max hyper-turbo satellite. There were three players left (including me) with top two to win an entry, so it was on the bubble. One of my opponents had a bigstack while I and the other guy had exactly the same amount of chips. BTN (guy with the same stack) shoved, I called from SB and bigstack overcalled us and eventually won the hand. So I checked the tourney lobby to find myself placed as a bubble boy, on third place. I'm wondering why..
I guess it's not a thing that would happen very often, but when it does, it could make quite crucial difference, so I'm sure it has to have some rules.
The only thing came to my mind was that it might be determined by strenght of losing hands (as I was beaten by both of them - i.e. guy with the same stack had the second best hand), but it seems weird to me.
Does anyone have any idea on what is decisive in such cases? If you think it's strenght of losing hand as well, then what would be decisive in case where two same-stacked guys have even the same losing hand?
Click to expand...
topper were your stack sizes the same amount before posting the sb or after posting the sb? If after posting the sb you actually had the bigger stack before the blinds were posted.
 
crusinnn

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LukeSilver said:
you sure about that? because I can find you several players that have made hundreds of thousands from high stake hyper turbos.

the variance is painful and the edge is usually very small maintaining a winning record before rake back at any reasonable level is usually impressive but several have 1-3% at the highest levels.

there is a team pokerstars player who plays these almost exclusively I rail him quite a bit to try and learn. I know hes putting a lot of effort into these and have even read an article about him targeting these and his aims.

im pretty sure he would disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Agree

I've made huge profits in the past from hyper six man and HU. Hyper does not play like other games , cards doesn't really matters especially in heads up , the skills is with the betting, right now on stars there's tons of regulars sitting in the heads up hyper day in and day out, they are waiting for "good" players to join that only plays premium hands and by the rules. If you have the right betting skills it's definitely an easy win for anyone. Lol be warned you will be called donks, fish, idiots for winning, I've played guys manytimes who win solely by bluffing , sometimes when you play the pros, you rarely see their cards and before you know it your down to nothing.
 
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