Did the dealer act accordingly in this scenario?

clover

clover

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This happened awhile back, but I would like to know what I should do if I should ever encounter this again. I called another player's all-in in a Casino poker tournament after the first three cards hit the flop. When I turned over my hand, he knew he was beat so he mucked his hand regardless of being all-in without seeing the turn and the river. The dealer then turned over his cards, and stated that the rules say the cards must be shown in an all-in scenario and dealt the turn and the river anyway. Several players had commented that since he had mucked his hand, I should have immediately won the pot despite whatever the turn and the river were. Even though I ended up winning that pot, I still feel the dealer was mistaken. Did the dealer act accordingly in this scenario?
 
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postflopper

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i know that in a cash game, u'll win the pot right away, no need for his hand to be shown. for a tourney, it depends on individual casinos and tournaments, some will rule that the cards must be flipped in a showdown, some will rule that the pot is yours once the guy mucks.
 
belerophon

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Didn't that woman accidentally have her aces hit the muck at the wsop last year and they deemed them dead cards?
That would seem normal to me but I suppose it really is up to the casino.
 
peacebrother

peacebrother

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unless cards touch the muck they can be flipped up. But if he mucks then they are dead
 
Mortis

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When a player mucks their hand, his/her cards are dead. The dealer shouldn't have done that, whether or not the hand was finished, because the player already gave up.
 
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Johnnybmoto

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In a tournament the cards must be turned up when a player is all in on the flop or turn. This is to prevent collusion. If they entered the muck pile they are dead though.
 
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dinoroxxx

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Touch the muck = instant dead

But, at the very least, the dealer should have stopped all play, called the floor/director over to make the ruling no matter what. Who knows these days though, there might be rules that if the cards are identifiable they can be played (never been to a place that uses this though).
 
scruffy mojo

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johnnybmoto is 100% correct in a tourney situation....
 
Exit141RTe1

Exit141RTe1

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I think the dealer can still turn the cards. He has to. Doesn't matter what comes up for the player who tossed the cards. They are dead, and he is out of the hand. It would have been interesting if he turned and rivered a winner, to see what the ruling is then. Could have ended in a brawl.
 
flint

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As said the hand has to be turned over and in tournaments the hand cannot be dead unless the cards cannot be identified.
 
superman4all

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yeah every casino i have played at would call the cards dead. once they hit the muck they are done
 
moeraj

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It's fine for the dealer to turn the cards over but the hand is always dead after being mucked and I don't believe there are any exceptions.
 
prepare

prepare

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i don't think it matters, all that much you won, and if you did not win then that sucks but whatever. Just let the cards fall and the chips go where the may.
 
OzExorcist

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Assuming the tournament was being run to TDA rules (or something very much like them) the dealer did the right thing - in a tournament all in, both hands have to be shown. It's a protection for the other players at the table as much as anything to prevent chip dumping and other angle shooting.

As for whether the hand was dead or not, first of all OP doesn't say whether the villain's cards actually touched the muck pile or not. If they were just pushed forward face down and the dealer turned them over there's obviously no issue here.

Second, even if they did touch the muck pile, the rules clearly state that a hand can be retrieved from the muck if it's in the interests of fairness and the cards can clearly be identified. OP doesn't say there was any argument that the cards were the correct ones and as discussed above showing both hands when all in is done in the interests of a fair game so again, the dealer was right to turn them up.

Note that this is completely different to the player that had her "aces" mucked at last year's WSOP - in that case, there was dispute over exactly which cards were hers and there had clearly been a dealer error.
 
moeraj

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There was no dealer error in wsop in that instance. The error was in the player not protecting her cards.
 
OzExorcist

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There was no dealer error in wsop in that instance. The error was in the player not protecting her cards.

Erm... no. There was definitely a dealer error in the infamous WSOP "aces" hand - he mucked a hand that hadn't been folded. The fact that the player also made an error doesn't negate that.
 
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