Couldn't you cheat in the WSOP?

I am watching the 10k 6-Hand Event #32 online in a live stream and they are showing hole cards... Not that I would do it or anything but what's the deal? Do they have a 1 minute delay or something? Because it looks to me like since it is live somebody could wear some sort of cochlear implant and have a railer tell them everything the opponents hold... I'm not saying I'd do it lol but it makes you think

It is always on at least 15 to 30 min delay. Just the commentary is on the delayed feed.

30 min delay for the wsop event and 1h for the EPT event.I personally prefer when the cards are hidden.

I like both delay with hole cards and no delay without, they both have their merits and I think you can learn a lot from both. That said, I probably have more fun watching with delay/hole cards.

Not off topic, just throwing in a different perspective on how to potentially cheat.

I'm not sure if they're still using RFID, though I know they have in the past. Each card is marked with a unique electronic identifier as opposed to those pocket cams- the signal of each card is transmitted wirelessly etc. It's entirely possible for someone to intercept and decrypt (assuming it's encrypted) that signal if they're within range, ie "just another player sitting at the table" then make up some system to determine what everyone else is holding then use it against them.

Honestly surprised it hasn't been done yet, although I think it would be really obvious if someone had that kind of edge based on how they'd play certain hands.

Imho buying other players action and playing in the same tourney is a form of collusion.

Wow, I dunno. I know I wouldn't even try to cheat. That's crazy, but as long as there's a delay, then no worries I guess.

BlakeBrown said:

Because it looks to me like since it is live somebody could wear some sort of cochlear implant and have a railer tell them everything the opponents hold...

Click to expand...

As mentioned above, the hole cards are only shown on a delay.

I believe it is common for players at the table to have someone in the stands watching the stream for them and filling them in on what cards people were holding. It's not during the hand, but even after the fact it's still very useful information. I'm 99% sure Daniel Negreanu freely admitted to doing this the year it was introduced.

It's not cheating per se because everybody's in the same boat, and everybody has the same opportunity to exploit the system. If you're someone who doesn't have a helper in the stands or out back though, you'd be at a significant disadvantage...

mycophile said:

I'm not sure if they're still using RFID, though I know they have in the past. Each card is marked with a unique electronic identifier as opposed to those pocket cams- the signal of each card is transmitted wirelessly etc. It's entirely possible for someone to intercept and decrypt (assuming it's encrypted) that signal if they're within range, ie "just another player sitting at the table" then make up some system to determine what everyone else is holding then use it against them.

Click to expand...

I'm no expert, but I believe there was an explanation for this along the lines that the RFID readers built into the tables were designed to only have an incredibly short range.

Anyone trying to read the cards wirelessly from further away than that would run into a problem: they likely end up receiving the signal from the entire deck. Unless there's some directed device that would only read the cards it was pointed at, but I think that'd be pretty conspicuous.

Zin said:

Imho buying other players action and playing in the same tourney is a form of collusion.

Click to expand...

I don't agree....
If those involved softplay I do agree, but if that's not the case there's nothing to be concerned about....

When I was younger, I was a high ranking official for some "children's" card games. IMO. As long as there is money/rewards of some type given out to the winners or high finishers, there will be someone trying to cheat the system in some way.

Lets face it, someone can always figure out a way to cheat in anything, but in this case, it would not be because of the showing of the hole cards on a 15 min delay.

If there was not delay it would be pretty sure ppl would cheat.

Staneff said:

If there was not delay it would be pretty sure ppl would cheat.

Click to expand...

Or at least it'd be pretty certain that they'd try to - which is exactly why they don't show them live.

Tournament directors and casino execs make some strange decisions from time to time, but they're not completely stupid

almost always they pass a live poker tournament there minimum 10 or more minutes late. so there would be no problem in that the letters tell everyone .. wonder if the players they had in such hands, the other players to find the trends of hand.

But if it was on like a 10min. delay... couldn't the guy just take like a real long time to act (ie. 10mins. & 5secs.)?

lulu pk said:

30 min delay for the WSOP event and 1h for the EPT event.I personally prefer when the cards are hidden.

Click to expand...

I agree with keeping them hidden. I suppose it wouldn't be as exciting to watch on TV then but lets be realistic... The people sitting at the final table didn't get there and they don't win by announcing or making public their playing styles or revealing their bluffs etc... So although showing the hole cards may not affect that particular game or tournament, it certainly educates opponents for future games that may be played. Doyle Brunson hasn't made his living by showing the world his cards!

Absolutely not.There were at least 15 minutes delay.

Poker Orifice said:

But if it was on like a 10min. delay... couldn't the guy just take like a real long time to act (ie. 10mins. & 5secs.)?

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure in the disclaimer that you sign it states that officials have the right to ban people who intentionally abuse and exploit the system

people always think of ways to cheat and that is why the 15 minute delay was introduced.They want to broadcast the poker to us as they popularise the game and get more people to take up poker.
Even thinking of cheating is stupid.It can't be done .

SpookMBluffwell said:

I agree with keeping them hidden. I suppose it wouldn't be as exciting to watch on TV then but lets be realistic... The people sitting at the final table didn't get there and they don't win by announcing or making public their playing styles or revealing their bluffs etc... So although showing the hole cards may not affect that particular game or tournament, it certainly educates opponents for future games that may be played. Doyle Brunson hasn't made his living by showing the world his cards!

Click to expand...

Erm... actually, Doyle Brunson kind of has. When he first released Super System there was nothing else like it on the market, and he copped a lot of flak from the other pros at the time for giving away their secrets. So in a lot of ways he showed the world more than just his cards -he showed the world how he thinks.

As for everyone else, this is a point I've made a number of times over the years: poker owes a lot to television coverage, particularly to ESPN's coverage of the WSOP. If it weren't for them, there would have been no poker boom, no explosion of new fish into the game, and chances are a lot of us wouldn't even be playing.

We have hole card cameras because it's better for television. We have the multi-month wait for the November Nine because ESPN wants it. And the same thinking applies to streaming the WSOP on a 15-minute delay. If that's what they want to properly promote the game, to get more people watching it and getting interested in it, then as poker player's we'd be idiots to argue they shouldn't have it.

BlakeBrown said:

I am watching the 10k 6-Hand Event #32 online in a live stream and they are showing hole cards... Not that I would do it or anything but what's the deal? Do they have a 1 minute delay or something? Because it looks to me like since it is live somebody could wear some sort of cochlear implant and have a railer tell them everything the opponents hold... I'm not saying I'd do it lol but it makes you think

Click to expand...

There is normally a 45min delay on the stream,

Players teams on the rail normally watch this on tablets and relay info back to the player, that is if this is there strategy?

The ethics of this are questionable but as all players are able to do this it is dubbed as being on an even keel and deemed acceptable.

Imagine what it would to a player's reputation if he were caught cheating at the WSOP. If it were someone well-known, it would be a huge scandal.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure most of the live stream has a 15 minute delay or it may be 30

Zin said:

Imho buying other players action and playing in the same tourney is a form of collusion.

Click to expand...

I disagree, I would like for you to explain why you feel that way.

checkrais247 said:

There is normally a 45min delay on the stream,

Players teams on the rail normally watch this on tablets and relay info back to the player, that is if this is there strategy?

The ethics of this are questionable but as all players are able to do this it is dubbed as being on an even keel and deemed acceptable.

Click to expand...

Nah.....its no different from players using HUD's and hand replayers online...if this is questionable so are those...