CLOSED MIND SOCIETY !!

I am an inventor age 70 who is patent pending on an enhancement to holdem poker. Notice I did not say a new game. I am not reinventing the wheel. I can increase action 10-20% pre-flop and flop. This would have a poitive effect on rake plus reduce those nights where a player doesn't get any action on his quality starting hands. And the rules of play would remain verbatim on the sites and math would remain unchanged. Starting AA at 220-1, start with a pair and flop set 7.53-1 against, outs counted same, etc.
Even contacted same again when I realized that a side effect would greatly reduce subtle collusion, the most sucessful kind. Got same rresults. Ring around the rosie with customer support marketing, floor managers, product development, etc at all the on-line poker sites till I get no reply or form letter thanking me for my suggestions??
Occassionally am told they do not want to limit table selection and it's impossible to prevent players using chat, skype. email etc to share information. Evidently they believe that those 2 components are enough to make subtle collusion profitable. All i wanted was an email from a decison maker or a chance to pitch my idea in a 2 minute phone call.
Got similar result from platform suppliers who wanted to sell me something like a poker room. LOL
I had a patent a few years back for a blackjack enhancement and got replies from decison makers at digital table manufacturers, casino's etc. Unfortunately my game was only designed for low limits and they did not feel it was a big enough market. But they did listen!!!!
And I got referrals to these people from reporters mostly. So far not one reply from any on-line poker reporters or radio show hosts.
Seems like they know no enhancement to holdem is possible. Good thing draw poker players did not think that way. Or 5 card stud. Or 7 cad stud. Still amazed at seeing on Wizard of odds Q&A and similar sites holdem players asking if it's harder to get a straight flush in 7 card or holdem. LOL
I am 500 miles frrom Vegas , have offered to pitch my game in person and if they think I am an idiot they can pitch me out in the street therrselves or have security do it.
Sure would at lease like the opportunity to be proven wrong.
The only reason I do not post full details is I don't think I can collect license fees from the Isle of Man. Hoping to license my idea
to deep pockets for protection.

Good luck with your venture.

Without details we of course can NOT promote your ideas, but I for one think there is plenty of room for improvement, and if your ideas do what you say they will do, then I wish you all the luck.

Not sure if this is the right section, but then I can't figure a better section to post this in.

Last two forums I posted on the moderator deleted immediately. Evidently there is no moderation in censorship. LOL

Ur not the first or the last one who thought of this. So "Isle Of Man" has prob heard this before. I've been thinkin about this for a while as well. Some sort of enhancement to make the game more 'reasonable' i guess. But i was more into rules which maybe has a bit of space for improvement. Ur in the money aspect which i think has reached its potential.

....10-20% for a winning poker player and a casino is irrelevant. If a casino is making 1mill a month whats 1.1mill gonna do? Nothing. They're good as it is. And plus out of that new 1.1mil they have to pay u a share now as well. So 10-20% for them becomes actually 7-14%. Nonsense grandpa. Same goes for the poker player....if ur making 10K a month whats 20% gonna do? Doing those numbers means ur mvoing up the stakes which in turn means u should be stackin money in the bank within a few yrs. When ur a millionaire pops, 10-20% is gas money. Mistress money. Layin on the counter in ur bedroom money.


U have the right ideas but ur motivation(money) is flawed. There's enough action in poker as it is. Those 10-20% wont make too much of a diff at all only fatten ur pocket immensely. And they aint lettin u in. They have no reason to. Ur gonna have to be groundbreaking somehow. Ur idea isnt enough.

P.S.

I forgot to mention....those extra 10-20% ur talkin about could go the other way as well right? I mean all the bad beats we deal with as it is? Donkeys. Fish. Just an after thought....

SlySwagga said:

Ur not the first or the last one who thought of this. So "Isle Of Man" has prob heard this before. I've been thinkin about this for a while as well. Some sort of enhancement to make the game more 'reasonable' i guess. But i was more into rules which maybe has a bit of space for improvement. Ur in the money aspect which i think has reached its potential.

....10-20% for a winning poker player and a casino is irrelevant. If a casino is making 1mill a month whats 1.1mill gonna do? Nothing. They're good as it is. And plus out of that new 1.1mil they have to pay u a share now as well. So 10-20% for them becomes actually 7-14%. Nonsense grandpa. Same goes for the poker player....if ur making 10K a month whats 20% gonna do? Doing those numbers means ur mvoing up the stakes which in turn means u should be stackin money in the bank within a few yrs. When ur a millionaire pops, 10-20% is gas money. Mistress money. Change.


U have the right ideas but ur motivation(money) is flawed. There's enough action in poker as it is. Those 10-20% wont make too much of a diff at all only fatten ur pocket immensely. And they aint lettin u in. They have no reason to. Ur gonna have to be groundbreaking somehow. Ur idea isnt enough.

P.S.

I forgot to mention....those extra 10-20% ur talkin about could go the other way as well right? I mean all the bad beats we deal with as it is? Donkeys. Fish. Just an after thought....

Click to expand...

10% irrelevant??????? If a casino makes an extra $100,000 a month, over a 10 year period thats 12 MILLION. Hardly irrelevant. Same with a profitable poker player, 10-20% more action is HUGE. I don't follow your logic.

Also you can't really put down his idea and say its not groundbraking when you dont even know what it is, all he gave us is the bottom line so you judging it based on that is completely ignorant.

I wish you the best of luck with your ideas, Mr. Paff.

The best improvement online poker could make is to emmulate live poker, meaning once pocket cards are delt, then the deck stops spinning like a slot machine and everything is in stone from pocket cards on. You should see the deck, the burn cards and the cards being delt. I read on another forum that the cards are always spinning non stop and can not believe this. This really makes live poker and online poker 2 different games and does bring up issues like do people who spend more on certain sites get a better spin of the deck after betting starts. I really try to keep an open mind that online poker is straight up but i had also really believed the deck was set in stone once pockets were delt This thread even went on to say that the longer or shorter amount a time a person decides to fold or bet or whatever will have a different outcome of that hand and that is just wrong on every level

SlySwagga said:

Ur not the first or the last one who thought of this. So "Isle Of Man" has prob heard this before. I've been thinkin about this for a while as well. Some sort of enhancement to make the game more 'reasonable' i guess. But i was more into rules which maybe has a bit of space for improvement. Ur in the money aspect which i think has reached its potential.

....10-20% for a winning poker player and a casino is irrelevant. If a casino is making 1mill a month whats 1.1mill gonna do? Nothing. They're good as it is. And plus out of that new 1.1mil they have to pay u a share now as well. So 10-20% for them becomes actually 7-14%. Nonsense grandpa. Same goes for the poker player....if ur making 10K a month whats 20% gonna do? Doing those numbers means ur mvoing up the stakes which in turn means u should be stackin money in the bank within a few yrs. When ur a millionaire pops, 10-20% is gas money. Mistress money. Layin on the counter in ur bedroom money.


U have the right ideas but ur motivation(money) is flawed. There's enough action in poker as it is. Those 10-20% wont make too much of a diff at all only fatten ur pocket immensely. And they aint lettin u in. They have no reason to. Ur gonna have to be groundbreaking somehow. Ur idea isnt enough.

P.S.

I forgot to mention....those extra 10-20% ur talkin about could go the other way as well right? I mean all the bad beats we deal with as it is? Donkeys. Fish. Just an after thought....

Click to expand...

(This has nothing to do with OP's idea, just how dumb the above post is)You obviously have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to a profit margin. If ANY company was guaranteed to be able to increase their revenue 10-20%(or even 7-14% whatever), they would do it in a heartbeat. Do you realize what even a 1% or half a percent in increased profit means to a large company per year? A shit ton of money. You say an online casino wouldn't care about making an extra $100,000 when they are already making $1 million....that is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard and you've proved to me with that post that you've never had one lesson on economics or management in your life, or read a newspaper for that matter. For example, in 1987 American Airlines saved $40,000 by taking out 1 olive from each salad served on their flights. That's nothing to a huge airline company, but that's $40,000 extra that they made in profits.

dan abnormal said:

The best improvement online poker could make is to emmulate live poker, meaning once pocket cards are delt, then the deck stops spinning like a slot machine and everything is in stone from pocket cards on. You should see the deck, the burn cards and the cards being delt. I read on another forum that the cards are always spinning non stop and can not believe this. This really makes live poker and online poker 2 different games and does bring up issues like do people who spend more on certain sites get a better spin of the deck after betting starts. I really try to keep an open mind that online poker is straight up but i had also really believed the deck was set in stone once pockets were delt This thread even went on to say that the longer or shorter amount a time a person decides to fold or bet or whatever will have a different outcome of that hand and that is just wrong on every level

Click to expand...

The reason that they do this is to randomize to prove(maybe not, OMG Rigged!!!) that there is no algorithm that someone could use to figure out what they next cards are going to be before they are shown on the board. To you it shouldn't make any difference because no matter what, unless the deck is stacked or you play poker based on luck(which you shouldn't) then it doesn't matter where the next card comes from, whether it is the top, bottom, or middle of the deck.

10o 20 % is HUGE Especially with no added expenses all profit. As a player I want the extra action. I can stand wins and losses but hate those sessions where everytime I get a good starting hand I get few callers. Sometimes just the big blind who folds after the flop.

Time for the usual reality check.

If you're going to pitch new ideas and be taken seriously, you need to structure and present your ideas in a professional manner that is easy for any reader to quickly digest.

If your presentation to potential clients is reflected in any way by your presentation here, then you can expect to be rejected by everyone you approach. Little things like the caps lock title, the lack of paragraphs and the rambling narrative need to go.

Also, you may want to consider the fact that perhaps no one wants "forced action" in Poker. What would your idea accomplish for the game? If you're increasing action by 10-20% pre-flop then by definition you must be forcing action in some way, and that only diminishes the player interaction and skill.

Yea I guess it doesnt matter if the cards are spinning slot machine style or played like live poker. It still doesnt seem like an algorhythm thing would get catch a pattern unless the sites produce a pattern. I dont see pattern at my live card room with the cards non slot machine spinning non stop, Its like if they were to shuffle and wash the cards after the pockets are delt and after the flop. No one said anything about playing on just luck but what are you doing if your playing slot machine cards throughout a game. Dang if only player 8 had folded 10 seconds earlier my card would of come up or Im glad he waitied 10 seconds more cause my card came up. I just think sites should try to emmulate live poker

No forced action. Rules are verbatim as those used on sites today. Pobabilities rremain unchanged. Sorry for rambling but frustrated at inability to get to talk or meet with a decision maker in the industry.
had no problem in blackjack patent, but pokerr people seem to make assumptions like you did. NO FORCED ACTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dan abnormal said:

The best improvement online poker could make is to emmulate live poker, meaning once pocket cards are delt, then the deck stops spinning like a slot machine and everything is in stone from pocket cards on. You should see the deck, the burn cards and the cards being delt. I read on another forum that the cards are always spinning non stop and can not believe this. This really makes live poker and online poker 2 different games and does bring up issues like do people who spend more on certain sites get a better spin of the deck after betting starts. I really try to keep an open mind that online poker is straight up but i had also really believed the deck was set in stone once pockets were delt This thread even went on to say that the longer or shorter amount a time a person decides to fold or bet or whatever will have a different outcome of that hand and that is just wrong on every level

Click to expand...

pokerstars uses a static shuffle, just about everyone else uses a continuous shuffle.

BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. It does NOT make online a completely different game than live (although other factors do, this isn't one of them). The only practical difference is with a constant shuffle, you can't rabbit hunt. Big deal. The funny thing about that is that some online sites have started offering rabbit hunting, while their shuffle is constant, so I don't know how the heck they think that's going to work unless they use a separate RNG for those.

Regardless, you never know what's coming next, so a single shuffle vs a million shuffles per second should make no difference to you. As far as you're concerned, the next card out of the deck is random. That's all you care about. A continuous shuffle is even more random than a set deck, and ultimately that's what you want in an online deal -- as close to total randomization as possible.

Only the rabbit hunters and the people who like to dream/whine about the hand they "would have had" if they didn't fold are going to be affected by a constant shuffle. Which is a terrible results-oriented habit to get into.

had no problem in blackjack patent, but pokerr people seem to make assumptions like you did. NO FORCED ACTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Well, you can't say things like, "I can increase pre-flop action 10-20%" without someone wondering what the ramifications of that are.

dan abnormal said:

Yea I guess it doesnt matter if the cards are spinning slot machine style or played like live poker. It still doesnt seem like an algorhythm thing would get catch a pattern unless the sites produce a pattern. I dont see pattern at my live card room with the cards non slot machine spinning non stop, Its like if they were to shuffle and wash the cards after the pockets are delt and after the flop. No one said anything about playing on just luck but what are you doing if your playing slot machine cards throughout a game. Dang if only player 8 had folded 10 seconds earlier my card would of come up or Im glad he waitied 10 seconds more cause my card came up. I just think sites should try to emmulate live poker

Click to expand...

Real Deal Poker works in the way that you want. Although it`s an online poker game, it uses an oddball system involving real cards. It doesn`t actually make the slightest difference to the play and pretty much nobody plays there. Still it warms my heart that our wonderful world of poker is so rich and diverse as to provide a home for every delusion. :laugh:

sounds like a great idea and i hope you the best of lk gettin the patent on that idea and i hope a casino backs you..

Would this be the Straddle? The straddle is just a 3rd blind, bigger than the Big Blind, making for a bigger pot. However there are some interesting strategic implications with the straddle.

Thanks for some positive input

Thought I should have placed it in rants and raves for a while. Not it is not a straddle. It is so subtle a railbird or a calling station might take an hour or more to realize something has changed. LOL Just hoping somebody who reads this will forward it or tell somebody who know somebody and I can at least get a chance to pitch it to a decison maker.
Did get conforrmation from Professor Brian Alspach that I am on solid ground mathematically. He has a great web site and his thesis on the distribution of Aces is a great read. Thanks to those who underrstand my dilemna

Well just like Bovinity said earlier, you are going to get absolutely no where with the professionalism you are portraying here. When you're done writing a post, why don't you go back through it and look for spelling or grammatical errors, because they are everywhere. If you're trying to get backed for something or for someone to take your proposal seriously, then you need to act like you care. If this was a job application, I'd already be on to the next one. Sorry buzz.

Im not being belligerent. Im just puttin myself in a casino owner shoes. 100.000 over 10yrs equals 10mil but i already have 100mil+ in the bank and counting. Why should i let u in? The casino has less to gain from his idea than vice versa b/c...out of those extra 10mil they have to pay him as well. So now it becomes 5mil over 10yrs. Thats peanuts for a casino.

SlySwagga said:

Im not being belligerent. Im just puttin myself in a casino owner shoes. 100.000 over 10yrs equals 10mil but i already have 100mil+ in the bank and counting. Why should i let u in? The casino has less to gain from his idea than vice versa b/c...out of those extra 10mil they have to pay him as well. So now it becomes 5mil over 10yrs. Thats peanuts for a casino.

Click to expand...

Seeing as how you are not a casino owner, I think your logic is completely flawed. Those are peanuts that would pay practically the entire staff.. And I believe Mr. Paff wouldn't get royalties from the idea, he'd simply sell the patent in a one-time deal, that'd be the only way that any gaming establishment would roll.

Hmm i was actually shootin for royalites. But if thats how they do it, i dont know.

Yea i'm not saying i'm right i was just elaborating on the idea.

Maybe its one of those "if it aint broke dont fix it" things. Ppl might not welcome a change to the game even if its minimal and therefore he didnt get too many replies regarding his idea.

psy0nyd3 said:

And I believe Mr. Paff wouldn't get royalties from the idea, he'd simply sell the patent in a one-time deal, that'd be the only way that any gaming establishment would roll.

Click to expand...

While he could sell the rights for a lump sum, that's not the way new casino games or variations on games usually work. If the new game is patented correctly then the inventor can charge any casino that wants to spread it an ongoing licensing fee or royalty. And if the game carries high enough demand then casinos will pay for it. Blackjack Perfect Pairs is just one example of this model.

As for OP's idea, I can only echo what Bovinity has already said: nobody will take you seriously until you learn to express yourself clearly and succinctly.

In your case, you need to be able to tell people:

- Exactly how your changes to the game work (preferably without needless big words like "verbatim")
- Exactly why players would want to play your version instead of the regular game
- Exactly how much extra the house stands to make

The last one is the most important one, FWIW. Having read your posts though, I don't think I can answer any of those questions confidently.

OK, I am going to go out on a limb and be possibly inhospitable to a new forum poster and tell you the straight up truth.

In the few posts I have read you sound angry, a bit paranoid, and a little like "that uncle with the crazy idea".

I would have trepidations about doing business with you, though I am curious about your idea.

Now, you might have a great idea... and you might end up a billionaire because of it, but I think it might be possible that working on your pitch and image a little might help.

cAPSLOCK said:

OK, I am going to go out on a limb and be possibly inhospitable to a new forum poster and tell you the straight up truth.

In the few posts I have read you sound angry, a bit paranoid, and a little like "that uncle with the crazy idea".

I would have trepidations about doing business with you, though I am curious about your idea.

Now, you might have a great idea... and you might end up a billionaire because of it, but I think it might be possible that working on your pitch and image a little might help.

Click to expand...

+1. Hire a rep to get the word out, sir.