ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
Mostly zach crunching the numbers, but I thought this would be good info for a reference thread or something:
(1:34:35 PM) zach: just saw you'd taken a shot at 200nl, interested on your opinion on the difference of 100 -> 200nl
(2:08:43 PM) Taylor: still there?
(2:08:47 PM) zach: yeah
(2:09:20 PM) zach: read your blog entry about 200nl
(2:09:27 PM) zach: just kinda curious as to the difference
(2:09:34 PM) Taylor: answered your question in my thread:
(2:09:35 PM) Taylor: question from zach:
Quote: how would you say 200nl is different from 100nl? Is it just more regs and more aggression/moves, similar to the 50-100nl difference? I'm considering taking a shot in the next month or so at 200nl as well. Well I only really have 1k hands done at 200nl, and they were played during the VPP week, so I probably can't give an accurate assessment as to how different it is. From what I experienced, an average of like %70 of the players were a mix of regs (8/7 through like 18/14), and the rest were fishy. The regs are definitely better, probably a good chunk of them have experience at higher limits and at 6max or heads up, so naturally they're more aggressive. fwiw I think I can beat the games right now, but I'm waiting for my bankroll to catch up.
Just take a shot 4-tabling or something, even if you're only just rolled, or slightly underrolled. The competition isn't like unbeatable or anything, and you'll get a nice feel for what it's like. Just don't do like I did and get laggro and start 3betting light and 4bet bluffing :/
(2:10:12 PM) zach: ah ok
(2:10:21 PM) zach: yeah I just cracked 4k
(2:10:24 PM) zach: so technically I'm rolled
(2:10:36 PM) zach: not sure if I'll take a shot now or wait until 5-6k
(2:10:44 PM) Taylor: yeah definitely
(2:10:52 PM) Taylor: take shots just 4tabling or whatever, see how it is
(2:10:53 PM) zach: and obviously would like 4-6 table first
(2:10:56 PM) Taylor: it's really not hard
(2:10:59 PM) zach: wouldn't go all crazy and try 20-tabling a new level lol
(2:11:04 PM) Taylor: lol
(2:11:49 PM) Taylor: you'll definitely have to exercise better table selection though...I'm really not sure 12-tabling is going to be all that profitable - it might be better to maintain 6-9 'good' tables and not bother with the others...
(2:12:07 PM) zach: are the regs that good?
(2:12:17 PM) zach: like honestly at 100nl even the regs aren't amazing
(2:12:32 PM) Taylor: yeah, they're pretty bad reallly....
(2:12:51 PM) Taylor: 200nl regs are like the cream of the crop from 100nl, but still aren't that great
(2:13:06 PM) zach: but you don't think the extra tables would be profitable?
(2:13:08 PM) zach: even fpp-wise
(2:13:09 PM) Taylor: again i've only played a couple thousand hands now, so take it with a grain of salt
(2:13:14 PM) zach: right
(2:13:44 PM) Taylor: yeah, maybe...i dunno, it just doesn't seem all that profitable keeping 12 'ok' tables
(2:13:53 PM) Taylor: rather than like 6 good ones...i dunno
(2:14:01 PM) zachl: ok
(2:14:06 PM) zach: also as long as you could keep them straight
(2:14:16 PM) zach: like 6 good 200nl and however many good 100nl could work as well
(2:14:33 PM) Taylor: yea exactly; that's what I've been doing, except like 3 and 6
(2:14:48 PM) zach: ah ok
(2:14:58 PM) zach: I've just heard about 0.5 vpps/hand at $1/$2
(2:15:19 PM) zach: not sure how rake is per hand
(2:15:40 PM) zach: but breaking even is pretty profitable at 0.5 vpps/hand
(2:15:55 PM) Taylor: what would the .5 equate to money-wise?
(2:15:58 PM) zach: even 1 PTBB/100 could win a ton of money
(2:16:12 PM) zach: well at supernova each vpp = 1.5 cents
(2:16:22 PM) zach: platinum it's 1.3 I think
(2:16:40 PM) zach: so at 0.5 that's 75 cents every 100 hands I guess?
(2:16:56 PM) zach: wow maybe it's actually better at 100nl
(2:17:00 PM) zach: in terms of winrate
(2:17:35 PM) zach: or maybe I did the math wrong
(2:17:36 PM) Taylor: maths not adding up for me...
(2:17:44 PM) zach: coulda sworn it was something like $12/1k hands for me at 100nl
(2:17:45 PM) Taylor: isn't it 2x1.3x100?
(2:17:57 PM) zach: oh I did 1.5
(2:17:59 PM) zach: ohhhhhh
(2:18:00 PM) zach: forgot
(2:18:04 PM) zach: vpp != fpp
(2:18:11 PM) zach: bonus is in fpps
(2:18:17 PM) Taylor: right
(2:18:26 PM) zach so at 200nl it'd be $7.50/1k at bronze
(2:18:41 PM) zach: but at platinum it'd be $18.75/1k
(2:18:55 PM) zach: $26.25/1k at sn
(2:19:16 PM) zach: since now I'm playing ~1k hands/hour doing 16-18 tables
(2:19:24 PM) zach that's not a bad hourly rate for breaking even
(2:19:29 PM) zach: and then if you can like win at 1 PTBB/100
(2:19:29 PM) Taylor: that doesn't sound right...
(2:19:37 PM) Taylor: oh n/m for breaking even...i'm getting shit mixed up
(2:19:50 PM) Taylor: so that's strictly 'rakeback' right
(2:19:54 PM) zach: right
(2:20:08 PM) Taylor: not bad at all
(2:20:17 PM) zach: and 1 PTBB/100 is $40/1k hands
(2:20:33 PM) zach: so even if bad table selection left you with only 1 PTBB/100 winrate
(2:20:45 PM) zach: that's $66.25/hour at 1k hands/hour
(2:20:54 PM) Taylor: sssick
(2:20:58 PM) zach: although the problem would be if table selection killed your winrate
(2:20:58 PM) zach: yeah
(2:21:10 PM) zach: only once you get sn though
(2:21:13 PM) zach: you think you'll get that this year?
(2:21:31 PM) zach: yeah I think working full time $50/hour equates to $100k/year
(2:21:33 PM) Taylor: I really don't think it's all that bad...I mean I consider 'bad' tables ones full of regs, but you could probably easily run them just stealing and floating etc
(2:21:51 PM) Taylor: yeah prob get sn this year...I think
(2:22:06 PM) zach: that's sort of my goal for next year
(2:22:16 PM) zach: be sn and be able to beat $1/$2
(2:22:23 PM) zach: I've considered going for sne
(2:22:26 PM) zach: but that would be suicide lol
(2:22:28 PM) Taylor: you dont think you can reach sn this year?
(2:22:37 PM) zach: unless somehow I can get up to 400nl and beat it
(2:22:40 PM) zach: oh
(2:22:42 PM) zach: I definitely will
(2:22:50 PM) zach: I meant then next year I'd be getting the benefits
(2:22:53 PM) zach: 3.5 fpps/vpp
(2:22:54 PM) Taylor: oh
(2:23:04 PM) zach: just gotta keep up like 30k hands/month
(2:23:11 PM) zach: or less at 200nl
(2:23:17 PM) Taylor: easy capeezy
(2:23:38 PM) Taylor: 200nl is going to be fun
(2:23:41 PM) zach: yeah
(2:23:49 PM) zach: searched some 2+2 threads on the differences
(2:23:54 PM) zach: apparently the biggest jump is to 400nl
(2:24:09 PM) zach: well then also to 1knl but that's a ways off lol
(2:24:13 PM) Taylor: not surprised...I feel like that's where you run into legit pros
(2:24:21 PM) zach: yeah it also makes sense too
(2:24:27 PM) zach: considering lots of casual players who play in casinos
(2:24:31 PM) zach: probably play 200nl
(2:24:45 PM) zach: and since according to everyone else, the play there sucks
(2:24:56 PM) zach: even the bad players assume they can beat 200nl online
(2:24:58 PM) zach: and then get raped lol
(2:25:13 PM) Taylor: lol
(2:25:17 PM) zach: but on the other hand lots of money so you'd expect more regs
(2:25:19 PM) zach: so I was just curious
(2:25:21 PM) zach: thanks for the info
(2:25:29 PM) zach: I'll definitely take a shot at it the next few days
(2:25:41 PM) Taylor: yeah man np...definitely do, you'll find it really isn't that intimidating
(2:25:52 PM) zach: that was sort of like 100nl too
(2:25:58 PM) zach: before I started it I was scared to death of it
(2:26:03 PM) zach: figured it was all sharks and I'd get eaten alive
(2:26:06 PM) Taylor: mind if I post this conv.? I think it would definitely make for good info
(2:26:28 PM) Taylor: I know I won't remember the $/hr values of everything we went through lol
(2:26:30 PM) zach: been there like 2 months now I think and now I don't even consider any more than like 5 other players good enough to avoid
(2:26:34 PM) zach: lol
(2:26:40 PM) zach: np you can post it
(2:26:46 PM) zach: anyway I've gotta go now, but thanks
(2:26:49 PM) zach: ttyl
(2:26:52 PM) Taylor: yeah man np, peace
(1:34:35 PM) zach: just saw you'd taken a shot at 200nl, interested on your opinion on the difference of 100 -> 200nl
(2:08:43 PM) Taylor: still there?
(2:08:47 PM) zach: yeah
(2:09:20 PM) zach: read your blog entry about 200nl
(2:09:27 PM) zach: just kinda curious as to the difference
(2:09:34 PM) Taylor: answered your question in my thread:
(2:09:35 PM) Taylor: question from zach:
Quote: how would you say 200nl is different from 100nl? Is it just more regs and more aggression/moves, similar to the 50-100nl difference? I'm considering taking a shot in the next month or so at 200nl as well. Well I only really have 1k hands done at 200nl, and they were played during the VPP week, so I probably can't give an accurate assessment as to how different it is. From what I experienced, an average of like %70 of the players were a mix of regs (8/7 through like 18/14), and the rest were fishy. The regs are definitely better, probably a good chunk of them have experience at higher limits and at 6max or heads up, so naturally they're more aggressive. fwiw I think I can beat the games right now, but I'm waiting for my bankroll to catch up.
Just take a shot 4-tabling or something, even if you're only just rolled, or slightly underrolled. The competition isn't like unbeatable or anything, and you'll get a nice feel for what it's like. Just don't do like I did and get laggro and start 3betting light and 4bet bluffing :/
(2:10:12 PM) zach: ah ok
(2:10:21 PM) zach: yeah I just cracked 4k
(2:10:24 PM) zach: so technically I'm rolled
(2:10:36 PM) zach: not sure if I'll take a shot now or wait until 5-6k
(2:10:44 PM) Taylor: yeah definitely
(2:10:52 PM) Taylor: take shots just 4tabling or whatever, see how it is
(2:10:53 PM) zach: and obviously would like 4-6 table first
(2:10:56 PM) Taylor: it's really not hard
(2:10:59 PM) zach: wouldn't go all crazy and try 20-tabling a new level lol
(2:11:04 PM) Taylor: lol
(2:11:49 PM) Taylor: you'll definitely have to exercise better table selection though...I'm really not sure 12-tabling is going to be all that profitable - it might be better to maintain 6-9 'good' tables and not bother with the others...
(2:12:07 PM) zach: are the regs that good?
(2:12:17 PM) zach: like honestly at 100nl even the regs aren't amazing
(2:12:32 PM) Taylor: yeah, they're pretty bad reallly....
(2:12:51 PM) Taylor: 200nl regs are like the cream of the crop from 100nl, but still aren't that great
(2:13:06 PM) zach: but you don't think the extra tables would be profitable?
(2:13:08 PM) zach: even fpp-wise
(2:13:09 PM) Taylor: again i've only played a couple thousand hands now, so take it with a grain of salt
(2:13:14 PM) zach: right
(2:13:44 PM) Taylor: yeah, maybe...i dunno, it just doesn't seem all that profitable keeping 12 'ok' tables
(2:13:53 PM) Taylor: rather than like 6 good ones...i dunno
(2:14:01 PM) zachl: ok
(2:14:06 PM) zach: also as long as you could keep them straight
(2:14:16 PM) zach: like 6 good 200nl and however many good 100nl could work as well
(2:14:33 PM) Taylor: yea exactly; that's what I've been doing, except like 3 and 6
(2:14:48 PM) zach: ah ok
(2:14:58 PM) zach: I've just heard about 0.5 vpps/hand at $1/$2
(2:15:19 PM) zach: not sure how rake is per hand
(2:15:40 PM) zach: but breaking even is pretty profitable at 0.5 vpps/hand
(2:15:55 PM) Taylor: what would the .5 equate to money-wise?
(2:15:58 PM) zach: even 1 PTBB/100 could win a ton of money
(2:16:12 PM) zach: well at supernova each vpp = 1.5 cents
(2:16:22 PM) zach: platinum it's 1.3 I think
(2:16:40 PM) zach: so at 0.5 that's 75 cents every 100 hands I guess?
(2:16:56 PM) zach: wow maybe it's actually better at 100nl
(2:17:00 PM) zach: in terms of winrate
(2:17:35 PM) zach: or maybe I did the math wrong
(2:17:36 PM) Taylor: maths not adding up for me...
(2:17:44 PM) zach: coulda sworn it was something like $12/1k hands for me at 100nl
(2:17:45 PM) Taylor: isn't it 2x1.3x100?
(2:17:57 PM) zach: oh I did 1.5
(2:17:59 PM) zach: ohhhhhh
(2:18:00 PM) zach: forgot
(2:18:04 PM) zach: vpp != fpp
(2:18:11 PM) zach: bonus is in fpps
(2:18:17 PM) Taylor: right
(2:18:26 PM) zach so at 200nl it'd be $7.50/1k at bronze
(2:18:41 PM) zach: but at platinum it'd be $18.75/1k
(2:18:55 PM) zach: $26.25/1k at sn
(2:19:16 PM) zach: since now I'm playing ~1k hands/hour doing 16-18 tables
(2:19:24 PM) zach that's not a bad hourly rate for breaking even
(2:19:29 PM) zach: and then if you can like win at 1 PTBB/100
(2:19:29 PM) Taylor: that doesn't sound right...
(2:19:37 PM) Taylor: oh n/m for breaking even...i'm getting shit mixed up
(2:19:50 PM) Taylor: so that's strictly 'rakeback' right
(2:19:54 PM) zach: right
(2:20:08 PM) Taylor: not bad at all
(2:20:17 PM) zach: and 1 PTBB/100 is $40/1k hands
(2:20:33 PM) zach: so even if bad table selection left you with only 1 PTBB/100 winrate
(2:20:45 PM) zach: that's $66.25/hour at 1k hands/hour
(2:20:54 PM) Taylor: sssick
(2:20:58 PM) zach: although the problem would be if table selection killed your winrate
(2:20:58 PM) zach: yeah
(2:21:10 PM) zach: only once you get sn though
(2:21:13 PM) zach: you think you'll get that this year?
(2:21:31 PM) zach: yeah I think working full time $50/hour equates to $100k/year
(2:21:33 PM) Taylor: I really don't think it's all that bad...I mean I consider 'bad' tables ones full of regs, but you could probably easily run them just stealing and floating etc
(2:21:51 PM) Taylor: yeah prob get sn this year...I think
(2:22:06 PM) zach: that's sort of my goal for next year
(2:22:16 PM) zach: be sn and be able to beat $1/$2
(2:22:23 PM) zach: I've considered going for sne
(2:22:26 PM) zach: but that would be suicide lol
(2:22:28 PM) Taylor: you dont think you can reach sn this year?
(2:22:37 PM) zach: unless somehow I can get up to 400nl and beat it
(2:22:40 PM) zach: oh
(2:22:42 PM) zach: I definitely will
(2:22:50 PM) zach: I meant then next year I'd be getting the benefits
(2:22:53 PM) zach: 3.5 fpps/vpp
(2:22:54 PM) Taylor: oh
(2:23:04 PM) zach: just gotta keep up like 30k hands/month
(2:23:11 PM) zach: or less at 200nl
(2:23:17 PM) Taylor: easy capeezy
(2:23:38 PM) Taylor: 200nl is going to be fun
(2:23:41 PM) zach: yeah
(2:23:49 PM) zach: searched some 2+2 threads on the differences
(2:23:54 PM) zach: apparently the biggest jump is to 400nl
(2:24:09 PM) zach: well then also to 1knl but that's a ways off lol
(2:24:13 PM) Taylor: not surprised...I feel like that's where you run into legit pros
(2:24:21 PM) zach: yeah it also makes sense too
(2:24:27 PM) zach: considering lots of casual players who play in casinos
(2:24:31 PM) zach: probably play 200nl
(2:24:45 PM) zach: and since according to everyone else, the play there sucks
(2:24:56 PM) zach: even the bad players assume they can beat 200nl online
(2:24:58 PM) zach: and then get raped lol
(2:25:13 PM) Taylor: lol
(2:25:17 PM) zach: but on the other hand lots of money so you'd expect more regs
(2:25:19 PM) zach: so I was just curious
(2:25:21 PM) zach: thanks for the info
(2:25:29 PM) zach: I'll definitely take a shot at it the next few days
(2:25:41 PM) Taylor: yeah man np...definitely do, you'll find it really isn't that intimidating
(2:25:52 PM) zach: that was sort of like 100nl too
(2:25:58 PM) zach: before I started it I was scared to death of it
(2:26:03 PM) zach: figured it was all sharks and I'd get eaten alive
(2:26:06 PM) Taylor: mind if I post this conv.? I think it would definitely make for good info
(2:26:28 PM) Taylor: I know I won't remember the $/hr values of everything we went through lol
(2:26:30 PM) zach: been there like 2 months now I think and now I don't even consider any more than like 5 other players good enough to avoid
(2:26:34 PM) zach: lol
(2:26:40 PM) zach: np you can post it
(2:26:46 PM) zach: anyway I've gotta go now, but thanks
(2:26:49 PM) zach: ttyl
(2:26:52 PM) Taylor: yeah man np, peace
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