Check Nuts = Penalty

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j0na1234

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Hi, guys

Look at this: YouTube - 2010 WSOP Episode 8 1/4 Main Event - DAY 1D

Darvin moon gets a penalty for NOT betting the nuts in position on river. What the heck? Have you ever heard of that rule? How lame..

Then I remembered I saw this video:
YouTube - NBC Heads Up Poker - Kristy Gazes vs Chad Brown
where kristy gazes does something INCREDIBLY stupid, but the guy playing her isnt much smarter himself, he didn't bet the river with the absolute nuts!!
But you don't see him get a penalty do you ? How long does this rule exist? Never heard of it
 
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Marginal

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Its a good rule because the assumption is that the only time someone is not going to bet the absolute best hand possible when last to act on the river is because he is in collusion with his opponent and betting buts his opponent in a bad position. Its a good rule, yes sometimes people misread their cards but its the rule is in place to prevent collusion. In the second hand they are HU in a shootout, that element of collusion is not there because of that.
 
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but the rule isn't that effetive 'cause you could just min bet if you are in collusion, and not break the rule
 
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Marginal

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True but atleast you stop them from checking back against each other.
 
Mortis

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Then I remembered I saw this video:
YouTube - NBC Heads Up Poker - Kristy Gazes vs Chad Brown
where kristy gazes does something INCREDIBLY stupid, but the guy playing her isnt much smarter himself, he didn't bet the river with the absolute nuts!!
But you don't see him get a penalty do you ? How long does this rule exist? Never heard of it


If you heard him, he said he didn't think there was any point in betting, because he put her on an Ace, too, therefore they would split the pot.. but as marginal said anyways, it was heads up. Not much collusion really goes on in HU, somebody's gotta win it, lol.
 
WEC

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Yeah, it has been a rule in many live Tournaments for many years. Just doesn't come up all that often.
 
Dreams of Tragedy

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wow I just learn something new, I never knew that.
 
pdias666

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i dont really understand that. you are palying, and you see 'i've a good/great hand' but sometimes you don't imediatly see ' i've the BEST POSSIBLE hand'

besides, if it is HU collusion is not an issue
 
Atticus22

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very interesting...

I can see that Moon didnt bet because he wanted to see the opponent's hand. if Moon HAD bet, the guy wouldve folded. (but he could watch the reruns on tv later...lol)

glad to learn about a new rule in tournament play: you HAVE to bet the nuts on the river if you have the last play.

thanks for the post
 
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what a fu*****g rule is that?! if i would like to try to slowpay the nuts i can't because i may receive a penalty?! and the problem is that appens at the wsop... horrible!
 
tusabes

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what a fu*****g rule is that?! if i would like to try to slowpay the nuts i can't because i may receive a penalty?! and the problem is that appens at the wsop... horrible!

It's AFTER the river and you're LAST to act. It's not a slow play anymore if the playing is over.
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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It's not about slow playing the nuts, you can slow play it, but if it comes to you on the river and you're last to act, surely you would bet to get some value? If that's how you slowplay the nuts, then it's stupid. Atticus says that you can see it on the reruns later but Moon says he didnt bet so he could see what he was playing with so he could work on that later but A) Moon doesn't have the poker ability to work on reads and B) I'd much rather make a value bet with the nuts and get a few mroe chips, how does he know he won't call? If he has such a solid read on him that he won't call, why does he need more? It's pure donk play checking back the nuts.
 
FLyby

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I agree the idea that you would check the nuts last to act on the river is just crazy. The only reason you would do it on purpose is because you are being nice to someone and that is what the rule is trying to stop.
 
Atticus22

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re: second video

duh, Kristy Gazes…and your giggling is annoying

and why didn’t Chad Brown get a penalty for not betting the nuts and last play on the river like Moon did?
 
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re: second video

duh, Kristy Gazes…and your giggling is annoying

and why didn’t Chad Brown get a penalty for not betting the nuts and last play on the river like Moon did?

Because they are HU and not at a 9 handed table. One person had to win etc
 
OzExorcist

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very interesting...

I can see that Moon didnt bet because he wanted to see the opponent's hand. if Moon HAD bet, the guy wouldve folded. (but he could watch the reruns on tv later...lol)

glad to learn about a new rule in tournament play: you HAVE to bet the nuts on the river if you have the last play.

thanks for the post

Two things:

1 - It's not a new rule.

2 - The main reason Darvin Moon didn't bet is that he's clueless.
 
BigBlue

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It is a rule - been for a while. Look up "Men the Master"
 
CoddBrunson

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Watching Darvin Moon in the WSOP was the first time I had ever heard of this rule; but it makes complete sense, and I'm glad its in effect.
 
RichKo

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Two things:

1 - It's not a new rule.

2 - The main reason Darvin Moon didn't bet is that he's clueless.


but that's how he explained it when interviewed... he wanted to see what kind of hand his opponent played like he did. It is a good rule, but I wouldn't call him clueless.
 
GrimlyGrim

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but that's how he explained it when interviewed... he wanted to see what kind of hand his opponent played like he did. It is a good rule, but I wouldn't call him clueless.

He said he knew his opponent wouldn't bet... Which I hope he means call instead of bet, but he is clueless. The board made three to a flush. Lot's of hands would check that river and might pay him off. To say, "I knew it" is just complete stupidity.
 
OzExorcist

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but that's how he explained it when interviewed... he wanted to see what kind of hand his opponent played like he did. It is a good rule, but I wouldn't call him clueless.

Yeah... and he also told his wife he folded a big hand at his main event final table when in reality he had nothing. What he says after the hand clearly has nothing to do with anything. The guy is clueless, it's as simple as that.
 
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Yeah... and he also told his wife he folded a big hand at his main event final table when in reality he had nothing. What he says after the hand clearly has nothing to do with anything. The guy is clueless, it's as simple as that.
Or he is the smartest man in the world.
 
PattyR

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only reason i knew this rule existed is b/c of wathing the wsop and darvin...lame rule imo
 
C00T

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If it is check check heads up on the river, both players have to show thier cards. Any player at the table can ask to see both hands.
 
PattyR

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if you weren't involved in the hand you cannot ask to see another players cards...wtf?
 
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