Cast your Vote: Is live easier than Online?

Is live poker easier than online poker?


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Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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I have noticed on poker forums (not just this one) that many players comment about how "live is so much easier" and "live players are so much worse" The comments along those lines are so ubiquitous that it almost seems like a poker fact. However, I really question the validity of this assumption.

My gut feeling is that this is an assumption made by players who primarily play online and when observing the inherent differences in live play, these online players categorize those differences as "weakeness" or "leaks" or sub-optimal play.

So...please cast your vote, but also please post below what you voted for, also estimate what percentage of live poker you play (We are going to use hours played online vs hours played live as the measuring stick...not # of hands or # tournaments just for simplicity sake so we are all using the same language). and then please post a few reasons WHY you voted the way you did.

1) what you voted for
2) % hours played live
3) why you voted the way you did
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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I'll start. I voted that live is harder than online. I play about 65% live.

Reasons:

OK, I think they are actually pretty close in difficulty, however I think a few key factors "tip" the scale to make live just a bit harder.

1) No poker tracker/ HUD/ Stats at the ready. you have to collect that data all by yourself, store it, and then recall it and apply it when you need to.

2) tells. You might be giving them off. You need to try and pick up tells on other players because they are trying to do it to you.

It is entirely possible that #1 and #2 cancel each other out....but I find my HUD stats to be so much more useful than my ability to pick up live tells...so for me online is easier in this respect.


#3 serious player or not, everybody is stuck watching 1 table. so at least on a subconscious level every player, even the fish has seen how you play.

#4 because of the increased rake and tip it is much harder to "beat" live poker. So, in essence players who manage to sustain a win rate MAY possess additional skills beyond an online player who can beat the same limit.

edit to add: I can't wait for Duggs to reply! We like to have a friendly forum battle/debate every couple of weeks! :)
 
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duggs

duggs

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live is easier because regs can't multi table, so there are less regs to fish ratio, and fish go broke faster online, and 200nl live plays soooooo much easier than 200nl online. if you don't believe me go try, or reg the tuesday 1k rather than a 1k live tourney.
 
Debi

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I really can't decide on an answer because I think it depends on your own individual skill sets.

For me playing live is easier because:

1. I think I am pretty good at getting reads live - not as good at using hud stats effectively online.
2. I have focus issues which are much much easier to rein in on a single live table vs 1-6 online tables.
3. Online I feel like my opponents can see right through my soul - live I feel like most of my opponents only think they can see through my soul. I am also pretty good at giving the wrong impression of myself on a live table.
4. I get a feeling of excitement and being where I should be when playing live - when I play online I often feel out of my element.

As you can see all of those things are mental and emotional - both of which I think are crucial when playing poker. I have the same skill sets otherwise live and online. The only technical thing I can think of is that when playing online you know exactly what the pot size is at all times and what the exact chip stacks of your opponents are. Live you have to "guestimate" a lot.
 
duggs

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live poker is obv softer at equiv stakes
 
Debi

Debi

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live poker is obv softer at equiv stakes

Yes - meant to quote you and agree on that 100%. I play tournaments live that range from $125-1150 with the majority of them falling in the $200-400 range. If I played online I would be playing tournaments that range from $5-109 - with the majority of them falling in the $5-20 range.

The comparison is not even close.
 
MediaBLITZ

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You can argue which field is softer til the cows come home - but there fact is live presents you as a player more information about your opponents than online is able to do. If you are any kind of player live will always be easier.

The great equalizer is 3rd party HUD's. Without that, Live vs Online would be no discussion at all.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Ok...I can jive with the notion...perhaps even the fact that $200 live is roughly equivalent to $5-$10 online. But does that make it easier? Does that make the players worse? I don't think so.

Basically, the stakes need an "exchange rate". If a burrito and beer in Guatemala costs $2 and the same thing in San Diego costs $12. That doesn't make the Guatemalan meal worse, or of lower quality...and it doesn't make the San Diego meal a rip off either.


I think if you found some accurate formula to compare online stakes to live stakes you would find the level of play to be pretty similar between the 2, and then depending on your individual skills one will be easier for you than the other. For me, the HUD makes online a tiny bit easier.
 
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nykaktak

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it seems to me that online poker is a little easier, than game in live tournaments because when you play houses you it is weakened, you can go to drink to tea, to make to itself to eat and so on, and at game in live poker you need to be very concentrated, but also online poker on the difficult game, here isn't present comparison, online and live poker is 2 different types of game) I so think
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Yes - meant to quote you and agree on that 100%. I play tournaments live that range from $125-1150 with the majority of them falling in the $200-400 range. If I played online I would be playing tournaments that range from $5-109 - with the majority of them falling in the $5-20 range.

The comparison is not even close.

You sound like me. Live I play $100-$1,500 with the majority being $200-$500
Online I play $1-$77. With the majority being $3-$15

So, for ourselves we have "equalized" The stakes between the 2 worlds.

But between our own equalized stakes...assuming $5 roughly equals $200 do you think live is still easier?

For me... My ROI is higher online.
 
tothbopo

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I have only played online but I am considering to play a live tournament.

But wich one should it be there is two possibilitys.

60 $ normal or 20 $ rebuy.

I think I will go for normal what would you advice be.
 
Debi

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You sound like me. Live I play $100-$1,500 with the majority being $200-$500
Online I play $1-$77. With the majority being $3-$15

So, for ourselves we have "equalized" The stakes between the 2 worlds.

But between our own equalized stakes...assuming $5 roughly equals $200 do you think live is still easier?

For me... My ROI is higher online.

That is why I think it is an individual thing based on skill sets. My ROI is higher live. I have won more money playing far, far fewer games live than online.

But a lot of my friends are like you with higher online ROI's than live.
 
duggs

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equalizing stakes is kinda a redic qualification tho. thats like saying plo is waaaaaay easier than nl if we compare 2000nl online to 2plo. any stake online difficulty of opponents> same stake live.

by definition 200nl live being equivalent to 5nl online is because the players are worse than the 200nl online players, not to mention the 100/50/25nl players. its really not a difficult concept.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I don't think live dollars and online dollars equate for a buncha products, for a buncha reasons.

We all expect to pay less for a digital version of something vs a hard copy.

Kindle books vs hard cover
MP3 song vs single On vinyl
Etickets vs paper tickets
Turbo tax vs accountant
Amazon vs department store

My prediction is in the near future we'll have to pay more for paper statements from our banks and utilities.


I play $1 online blackjack when I have a promo code, and I play $15-$25 blackjack in a casino. Is the casino blackjack easier? Nope. I'm paying more for the physical experience... Not for an easier game.
 
duggs

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I don't think live dollars and online dollars equate for a buncha products, for a buncha reasons.

We all expect to pay less for a digital version of something vs a hard copy.

Kindle books vs hard cover
MP3 song vs single On vinyl
Etickets vs paper tickets
Turbo tax vs accountant
Amazon vs department store

My prediction is in the near future we'll have to pay more for paper statements from our banks and utilities.


I play $1 online blackjack when I have a promo code, and I play $15-$25 blackjack in a casino. Is the casino blackjack easier? Nope. I'm paying more for the physical experience... Not for an easier game.

Wagers are wagers, on or off line is irrelevant
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Wagers are wagers, on or off line is irrelevant

On this point we may have to agree to disagree.

I think your argument would be a lot more valid if brick and mortar casinos offered $0.01/0.02 cash tables and $1 tourneys. But their margins wouldn't be big enough to pay the rent and pay the staff's wages...so necessarily the "micro limits" in a live game must be bigger.

The same fish, who knows he is a beginner will sit down at a $1 tourney online and a $50 tourney live...what I mean is micro players play the micros wherever they are at. $50 is the micros live... So that is where you will find the micro players. But both games; the $1 online or $50 live will consist of the same level of players. The "field" be be roughly equivalent in skills and experience in the 2 tourneys once you equalize the stakes.
 
MediaBLITZ

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I have only played online but I am considering to play a live tournament.

But wich one should it be there is two possibilitys.

60 $ normal or 20 $ rebuy.

I think I will go for normal what would you advice be.

Playing a rebuy is usually a whole different level of play past "normal". You are going to run into an entirely different strategy (style of play) before that rebuy period ends. So if you are good with that and can adapt rebuys can be fun and profitable.
 
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baudib1

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Live poker is infinitely easier than online. At the lowest limits, there are people who can break even or even grind a profit at $1-$2 who would get crushed at NL5. If you talk to NL5 regs, you can easily discern that they have a much greater understanding of poker than 99% of live $1-$2 regs.
 
BenjiHustle

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I voted that live is more difficult.

I've played about half of my playing hours live, though that does leave me playing double the number of hands online, minimum

I voted the way I did because of the pace of play in live play. There are aspects that make it easier; for example, I can read players much more easily in live play and live players do seem to be far more polarizing than online (probably because online players can use HUDs to make sure they include balance). However, patience is a skill and is the primary skill utilized in poker. Live poker tests your patience in ways that online poker not only CANNOT, but online poker doesn't want to either (See Zoom Poker, Rush Poker, etc.) When the wins and losses are coming so quickly that they're off-setting each other by the minute, there's no aspect of patience. When you have to deal with the sting of a sick beat while someone looks you in the face like they knew they were gonna spike a 2-outer the whole time; that's difficult.
 
duggs

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On this point we may have to agree to disagree.

I think your argument would be a lot more valid if brick and mortar casinos offered $0.01/0.02 cash tables and $1 tourneys. But their margins wouldn't be big enough to pay the rent and pay the staff's wages...so necessarily the "micro limits" in a live game must be bigger.

The same fish, who knows he is a beginner will sit down at a $1 tourney online and a $50 tourney live...what I mean is micro players play the micros wherever they are at. $50 is the micros live... So that is where you will find the micro players. But both games; the $1 online or $50 live will consist of the same level of players. The "field" be be roughly equivalent in skills and experience in the 2 tourneys once you equalize the stakes.

so if you win 100bb at 200nl is it worth less than the 100b you just won at 1/2 live? no of course not. its a commonly accepted fact that online is harder at comparable stakes. arguing lowest stake live is 200 therefore = 2nl online is stupid, its the player pools that dictate the difficulty, and adjusting them to be equal in a discussion of difficulty is just giving a ridiculous caveat to justify an incorrect position.
 
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live poker is 10000000000x easier than internet pokers imo
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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im sorry, but this thread is so ****ing pointless
 
tothbopo

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Playing a rebuy is usually a whole different level of play past "normal". You are going to run into an entirely different strategy (style of play) before that rebuy period ends. So if you are good with that and can adapt rebuys can be fun and profitable.

Thank you for the reply. I am pretty sure that I will go for the normal tournament as it will bo my first live poker ever I havd absolutely no odea of what its like.

I just dont like the comment about that this is the same as online micro buy-in, and I can expect a lot fishing.

This is the only legal game nearby were I live, we habe a very strict low about gambling in Denmark. And often they are cancelled due to too few sign ups.
 
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