cashing in tourneys question

How often should a decent player reach the money? I seem to consistently get to the top 20%, but rarely get into the money. Only once have I reached a final table. I've only played probably 50 tournaments because I can make more money at ring games. I just keep hoping for that big tourney payout that never comes. I seemed to always get put out by bad luck.

Since the field is very big and the blinds just get bigger and bigger, it is very, very hard to cash constantly in tourneys because of the variance: in order to survive, you have to make moves (push when getting low, steal, etc.) that can lead to busting out. Because you have only one go and have to take chances, luck is very much a factor in tournament and the bigger the field, the highler the luck factor.

To illustrate my point. 12 people left out of 123. I get and AA raise 4xbb and get 1 caller. Flop 949. I push and he calls with A9. Seems to happen every time I get close. Usually by a hand I dominate, such as AK vs AJ. I just can't understand how people get so lucky against me. I don't mean to whine but #&^$! By the way, only top 5 got paid.

Check out the Player Database at Bluff Magazine | The Thrill of Poker, Poker Rankings, Poker Tournament Coverage, thepokerdb, online poker rankings

I have played 494 tournaments since Jan 06 and have cashed 57 times. That's 11.54% of the time I play tournaments I will cash. Currently I'm 23052nd on the poker stars leader board.

Now compare the number one position on the Poker Stars leader board. the player is Shaundeeb he has played 3226 tournaments and cashed 515 times. That's 15.96% of the time he plays tournaments he will cash.

At the player data base you can compare your stats to those who are winning. I am fairly happy with mine at 11% though I would like to do better. When I compare it looks to me that I'm pretty close percentage wise as the current leaders. I'm thinking that if you can cash somewhere in between 10 to 20% of the tournaments you play then your doing something right. If it's better than 20% your either on a hell of a rush or your really, really good.

Edit addition: If your at 20% your doing really really good, that's cashing 2 out of 20 tournaments. I'm at 11% which is a little over 1 in 20. This kind of gives you some perspective of how hard it really is to win a tournament, why bankroll management is so important and why the bad beats are so frustrating. Patience and playing your A game all of the time without tilting will bring up those percentages.

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing I've cashed maybe 4 out of 50 which is less than 10%. However, I do seem to be getting deeper in tourneys. I also have been staying close avg stack.
Does anyone feel that there's a big difference in the quality of player in a freeroll vs one with a higher buy-in? I have only played one tourney for more than 5 bucks($25). Again I got into the top 20% and busted out.

Does anyone feel that there's a big difference in the quality of player in a freeroll vs one with a higher buy-in?

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Oh yeah, it's fairly consistent the more you pay for a tournament or ring game the higher the quality of play. This is not to say you won't get your bad beats in the higher levels, you will but in my experience the better quality players are in the higher stakes tournaments.

Free rolls are a LOT different than money tourneys, when you have real cash at stake the play differs considerably.

When I first started to cash consistently I was like you finishing in the top 20% of the field consistently as well. I still am "most" of the time finishing in the top 20% but I only make the cash in a little over 1 out of 20 tournaments played.

So stick with good bankroll management, play your A game, try not to tilt and recognize even the pros aren't getting 2 out of 20. Patience and determination is key.

Definitely a difference, no question.

I've built a bankroll from $0 playing in freerolls then moving up. When you don't front your own money to play there are a lot of "All-in no matter what on the first hand" players. One of them always wins a huge stack within minutes and can control the action. Besides that, its harder to steal blinds, make a bluff or even fold sometimes because players are just terrible.

In regular cash tournaments, there is a lot more emphasis on position, stealing and well timed bluffs. Generally, players don't risk their entire stack unless they honestly feel they have the best hand, which makes calling an all-in harder to do. You need to be able to make huge laydowns, and follow betting patterns to pick up on discrepancies. People know what they are doing and use all their poker skills to make the money.

Freerolls its pretty hard for me, although cash is alot easier. Lower stakes I treat as freerolls, people will take stupid risks to try to get ahead, then turn around and rebuy (if available) if they dont get lucky.

Freerolls and lower stakes I am way low % in the money (2% maybe but in freerolls I also play different myself and take more risks, but not outright donkey plays), in decent games, I am consistanly at least at the final table.

I do the same thing as you, build my bankroll through freerolls and very low stake tourneys/micro tables. I know your frustration well. Once I build up enough to avoid them, I avoid them like the plauge unless its a prize I wouldnt mind getting or a sat into a larger tourney I cant really afford to buy into.

If people dont have anything/much at stake, expect idiots to make it alot harder for you. Sometimes I will just fold anything I get at the start if I really want to try to get far into the tourney, no matter what I have (not putting up much of my stack even with AA against 9 dorks that hasnt figured out where the fold button is yet, one will get lucky).

It depends on if reaching the money is all you want to do, or if you want to take some shots and have the needed stack to make a real run at the final table. i personally have started to force myself to take these shots cause i'm tired of just making the money. I play super tight poker and this new startegy hasn't landed me a win yet, but i know it's needed to do so. I think if you reach the money 20% of the time that's damn good. Final tables take some help, I don't know what a good percentage is to rach these, I would be happy with 5% of the time in a large field (800 and up), but would expect that number to be higher in the smaller fields.

MrDaMan said:

Check out the Player Database at Bluff Magazine | The Thrill of Poker, Poker Rankings, Poker Tournament Coverage, thepokerdb, online poker rankings

I have played 494 tournaments since Jan 06 and have cashed 57 times. That's 11.54% of the time I play tournaments I will cash. Currently I'm 23052nd on the Poker Stars leader board.

Now compare the number one position on the Poker Stars leader board. the player is Shaundeeb he has played 3226 tournaments and cashed 515 times. That's 15.96% of the time he plays tournaments he will cash.

At the player data base you can compare your stats to those who are winning. I am fairly happy with mine at 11% though I would like to do better. When I compare it looks to me that I'm pretty close percentage wise as the current leaders. I'm thinking that if you can cash somewhere in between 10 to 20% of the tournaments you play then your doing something right.

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As in all things, stats like this can be a little deceiving. Over the same period, I have played 1116 tournies and cashed 19.4% or 217 times. Still and all, I'm not overly happy with this %, and am striving to do better. While variance is not as pronounced in tourney play, it can still bite ya. At one point, I has an out of the money streak of 28, and my longest ITM streak stands at 5.

You guys pull up your stats from pokerstars? Does FTP offer this?

Wow, I'm in the money 28% of the time.....and I feel a need for improvement.