Calculating your edge

I've been reading Barry Greenstein's Ace on the River and he frequently refers to your edge in a game. I've heard it before numerous times, but never learned how players are supposed to calculate it.

Barry goes so far as to say he had calculated his edge down to one tenth (!) of a percent in a certain game. How the hell does he come to such an accurate %?

On a side note I'd recommend that book to anyone and everyone involved in poker. Great great read and I'm not even 1/2-way done.

What is the edge he is calculating and what are the numbers that he is using? I have heard of a players edge as a number or a formula before.

He's just talking about his edge % in a game; he doesn't show how to calculate it anywhere in the book (so far).

ex talking about a %3 edge in a holdem game or w/e

How could you possible calculate to a tenth of a percent a number that could never be proven. It is possible for really good poker players to make questionable moves and bad players to make good moves so how the heck can you get numbers for something like that. I am probably missing something.

I've been wanting to read Ace on the River since last years wsop when I learned he signed and gave away copies of it. Unfortunately, it's not available in ANY local book stores, and I'd have to order it online. Hopefully I'll get to it eventually.

That said, I've got no clue how you could possibly calculate your edge over other players. As long as I know I HAVE an edge then I'm happy.

Emperor IX said:

I've been wanting to read Ace on the River since last years WSOP when I learned he signed and gave away copies of it. Unfortunately, it's not available in ANY local book stores, and I'd have to order it online. Hopefully I'll get to it eventually.

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pokerstars FPP store ^^

ChuckTs said:

Pokerstars FPP store ^^

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I'll definitely put that on my priority list when I finally am paid all the debts I'm owed. Thansk

Greenstein has to be referring to some kind of number like ROI when he talks about edge, right?

I finished reading it about a month back and I haven't got the book with me right now, but from memory he was talking about it in terms of a % skill edge over the other players in the game.

I'd imagine ROI would be the figure he's really talking about though.

Fascinating read when it comes to all the stuff that the other poker books don't talk about. I don't know if it'll make many people better poker players, but I imagine it will make lots of people better citizens of the poker world.

aliengenius said:

Greenstein has to be referring to some kind of number like ROI when he talks about edge, right?

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I don't think so. I think he means something along the lines of him being %3 better than other players.

Take a made-up casino game for example. The house has a %5 edge, and therefore will win %55 of the time in the long run, the player winning %45. That's my guess anyways.

Has the poker book connoisseur not read Ace on the River?

True, that's how he words it, but surely ROI (or some other figure like it, though I can't think of a better one) would have to be what he's basing it on - "skill" is just far too esoteric a concept to be putting % figures on with any kind of accuracy

Could it be just a number that HE uses for himself to make him feel better about a call he knows he shouldn't make??

Like when someone says I know you have pocket kings..and calls anyhow?

ChuckTs said:

I don't think so. I think he means something along the lines of him being %3 better than other players.

Take a made-up casino game for example. The house has a %5 edge, and therefore will win %55 of the time in the long run, the player winning %45. That's my guess anyways.

Has the poker book connoisseur not read Ace on the River?

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That's not usually how a typical casino game works. For example, the house edge on all bets in roulette is 5.26%, but if you are betting an inside number you will only win 2.63% of the time (even though the edge is still only 5.26%). It's usually money not actual event odds that dictates the calculation, so it's conceivable that BG just has a large (for live game) sample that he is calculating his "edge" on based on buy-in to $ won ratio, or something like that.

Also, in your example, typically a 55/45 split be considered a 10% edge (55 minus 45 = 10).

I thought Ace on the River was kind of weird when I read it (awhile ago), and not particularly helpful; maybe I should give it another look.

aliengenius said:

That's not usually how a typical casino game works. For example, the house edge on all bets in roulette is 5.26%, but if you are betting an inside number you will only win 2.63% of the time (even though the edge is still only 5.26%). It's usually money not actual event odds that dictates the calculation, so it's conceivable that BG just has a large (for live game) sample that he is calculating his "edge" on based on buy-in to $ won ratio, or something like that.

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Ahh I see. Well that could very well be what he means.

aliengenius said:

Also, in your example, typically a 55/45 split be considered a 10% edge (55 minus 45 = 10).

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That's what I meant Just a quick (and wrong) example from me.

aliengenius said:

I thought Ace on the River was kind of weird when I read it (awhile ago), and not particularly helpful; maybe I should give it another look.

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Well it's definitely different. It's more of a poker lifestyle instructional book than a strategy book. I didn't think the actual writing was weird though. Loving it ATM.

Wonka22 said:

Could it be just a number that HE uses for himself to make him feel better about a call he knows he shouldn't make??

Like when someone says I know you have pocket kings..and calls anyhow?

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Huh? This is one of the top pros in the world we're talking about here. He would never make an excuse to make a play he thinks will bring negative expectation.

I told you you'd like that book. Great poker book -- not so much for the strategy as for the mindset and reflections of a poker great.

Indeed you did and you were spot-on A must-own IMO.