building a bankroll at sit-n-go

I have been trying to build my bankroll at sit n goes...the small dollar amount rings with only 9 players, I come in 2nd or 3rd place most of the time...any advice on how i can build it instead of playing at the small amount tables....

honestly, i think playing these small buy in SNG's are the best route to take until you have built your BR up enough to either play full ring or move up in STT or MTT stakes. IMO

Well I have been through this last month, so I think playing small sngs is best way to start up your roll. I would play some small tourneys when you are properly rolled up for them and slowly build up. Time is on your side so there is no need to rush anything since your are not playing this for a living as far as i know.

STT until you get enough to move to the next level. Problem is until you can win, you wont move. LOL 3rd just gives your buyin back. So the problem isnt really the stakes, it is that you need to win at the stake...

If you're consistently cashing then you'll still be making forward progress but Odin's right, winning them is the fastest way to progress.

Even taking second place will move you forward relatively quickly though. I find the important part is at least taking second if you make it past the bubble: often it's pretty easy once the bubble has burst, and once you're heads up anything can happen.

chiefer77 said:

honestly, i think playing these small buy in SNG's are the best route to take until you have built your BR up enough to either play full ring or move up in STT or MTT stakes. IMO

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I've got to agree with Chiefer completely. The smallest ring games can have play worse than a freeroll and you will see the most insane hands called and chased to the river. Bad part is these guys suck out way to often and you'll find yourself playing as bad as them if you're not carefull. Don't get into a rush to make big bucks, perfect your game and build a BR where your confidence is best before moving on to better ring games.

I tried this approach several different times on different sites over the months. Literally hundreds of SnGs. Its very difficult to bulid up any substantial profit playing 1 table SnGs, most successful players will see only a moderate profit, especially at the smaller buy-ins. IMO, the luck factor is way too strong once you get to the bubble/push fest. And then it's usually a toss up, no matter how strong a player you are. the game usually comes down to one hand standing up in a race. takes skill and patience to get there, then you have to really hang your ass out there at crunch time because the blinds are so big.

GL

It depends where you are playing. Like if you are playing on PS then trying to play 1$ SnGs where you make a 60c profit if you get 3rd isn't that easy because of the high fees. And you have got to have patience, because it will take a LONG time for your BR to increase playing 1$ SnGs no matter how good you are.

Anyways, the key with STT is that you really need a high first%. %ITM really doesn't matter that much so long as when you are ITM you are getting first alot of the time.

I started my roll off nicely by playing 18 and 45 player $1 sng's on Stars

I was kicking ass with STT SAGs last month. You surely can make a decent bankroll with them, again you have to be able to beat them though. If you are not building your bankroll, it is because you are not good enough to beat them yet.

Most of the time in the $1 Sit and gos you can sit around until you get decent hands, while the remaining players basically shoot themselves, leaving the luckiest donker with a big stack and about 3-4 players remaining. It could take 45 minutes or longer to make it to where you have 4 players remaining. Limp with decent starters in unless you have a very decent pocket pair. Decent PP in hand = play it strong. If you haven't won a hand to this point, which sometimes happens, it's not a big deal other than the fact most of the players will raise your blind and bet on the flop.... steamroll you when given any chance. Playing only very decent hands will give you the ability to sit around and have a decent stack for when the blinds actually get to a point where they're high enough to care about and remaining players should be few.

Slow play early on and try to steal a few.
While you're sitting there picking your nose, make sure you take notice of the players with similar playing style as yourself, for later use. Later on when you and the remaining opponents have a similar or even decent stack, they'll play scared because of their stack size, they know you're tight, and won't do anything to stealing, even if they know full well your full of b.s., because they feel they have no cards to defend with.

My biggest advice would be not doing anything drastic, bluffing, or chasing, especially early on. When you've made the money you should know your opponent and be able to know when to A) take your chances if you're the short-stack B) Raise the small stack pre-flop or bet on the flop to folding stations, and even the big stack if your the mid-stack (you want to grind the short-stack down, not allowing yourself to fall into 3rd in chips when the blinds are high) C) Know how and have the ability to take a big-stack donk down heads-up when they have a three or four to one chip advantage, patience and trickery is key imo D) Try not to be bullied too much. Sometimes it's best to put your foot down with an all-in, with a moderately decent starting hand, than to table's hoe. Because the three of you just made the money, and your short-stacked, the opponent will try to grind away at your stack and big blind. The blinds are high and you'll have no choice to push all-in sooner or later, if your short. Don't make it too late. It's better to do this sooner than later, when your stack size is decent enough that there's a chance that you can show them you're not going to take it and there's a possibility they won't call with garbage because your stack is pocket change.

Take your time. I tend to think people take the auto/fast bet as a bluff more often than not at this level. Sitting for 10 seconds to give them a chance to realize what they have and how you've played previously, which should be with good cards, and tight, they'll think twice about trying to pull-off their favorite wsop Main Event Moneymaker/Gold bluff moves and wonder if you're the next Chris Ferguson.

Opponent tendencies, playing patterns, etc, is very easy to see and figure out at the lowest level SNG. Take advantage. Figuring which opponents won't last much longer, because of the amount of hands they play, and playing style is key to your strategy when you're on the bubble.

I'm trying to build my bankroll on $2.20 SNG on bodog. I was playing alot of higher stakes before but I wasn't winning consistantly so I bumped it down a notch. I'm currently winning consistantly in the $2.20 tables but I still don't feel confident moving up.

A few more months of practice at the lower level can't do anything but help me.

ziggymom said:

any advice on how i can build it instead of playing at the small amount tables....

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IMO you are doing fine. You've apparently found a game you can cash in, which puts you ahead of many/most of the players out there.

Build your bankroll doing what you are doing. You can't be successful until you have a decent percentage of first place finishes under your belt. When the bankoll is big enough, move up to the next higher level of the same game. If you're not able to at least stay afloat at that level, step back, rebuild your bankroll, and try again.

Do not necessarily expect that you can be immediately successful at the next level without some slight change in your play. This is something you will have to figure out for yourself.

Keep repeating this process and one or both of two things will happen.

First, you may reach a point where you're looking for variety. If your bankroll justifies it, look around and see what else you might like to play.

Second, you may climb the ladder and reach a level at "your" game where you can't achieve the success you are looking for. Either the players are substantially better than you or you aren't comfortable playing at that level for some reason.

Keep this up and be patient. By following this approach, you probably won't win fast but you probably won't lose fast either.

Good Luck

I think sitngos are probably the safest way to build up a bankroll, you don't have much variance and you should be able to consistently cash when playing them properly. You won't build your bankroll especially quickly, but it's definitely what I like to do to keep a consistent profit, and once you build a big enough bankroll I'd start mixing in MTTs. If you're good enough to beat sitngos consistently you're likely good enough to beat MTTs fairly consistently and those are higher rewards for better players as the prize pool is more topheavy with 10% or so of the field being paid out compared to the 30% of the field being paid out in MTTs. The more top heavy the prize pool is the more it favours good players. I would recommend playing smaller field MTTs though, as you've got much larger variance in MTTs. Also, be careful as to your selection of which sitngos to play, don't play them if they're taking out more than 10% as juice to the house as this makes them very difficult to beat even for skilled players (though the $2 + .25 aren't much worse so they're likely playable as juice isn't that significantly more.) UB I know has $.50+.05 sitngos and up which you should be able to start out at regardless of your bankroll and I'm sure there's other sites which have similar sized STTs.

I recently posted a sng thread, you can make money even at 1.20 single tables. Yes 3rd place is only 60, plus the buy in ($1.80), but it is progress just the same. If you play 100 games and place 1st 15% of the time, 2nd 20% of the time, and 3rd 25% of the time you will earn $166.50-120.00 = $46.0 profit, yes it will take time, but once you build it up you can move on to the next level. I don't think the win rate I posted is unrealistic either, yes it will vary but you can make good progress, by being patient and let everybody knock each other out, then playing aggressively and really concentrate on stealing as many blinds as possible.

I actually have placed 1st more then twice as much as third place, because I am agressive about stealing blinds and usually have a big stack while on the bubble, because everybody plays so tight, because they don't want to fall out before the money. When I go out in third it is because I lost a big stack while stealing.

As others have said, it can take a long time to build a bankroll on those $1 SnG's BUT it can work.
I started in freerolls, won a few ($2 at a time)
I built my bankroll that way, took me several months but I am still playing and still haven't made a deposit.

It's a tough road but it's also a good way to practice your skills, learn and if you're lucky make a few dollars

Good luck out there