The brutal game that is poker

akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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Sorry if this is going to sound a bit whiny/ranty but I need some sort of guidance and to hear others' experiences regarding this, I wouldnt be writing it if I didnt need/want some help :)

So last weekend I had some really good sessions, ended up finishing on Sunday night with something like +10BI since the Saturday morning. Was really positive and upbeat about my game and confidence was high, then, Monday came.

Im not joking, I probably played no more than 2 hours and ended up with -8BI, having spent God knows how long playing at the weekend. I played exactly the same. Got hit with FH over FH, Flush over Flush, Set over set, you name it. Needless to say on Monday night I was absolutely fuming, not whilst playing, I actually wasn't feeling tilted till maybe the last 1/2BI which is understandable. But I was so angry, began to question whether there is any point playing when bad luck can have this devastating effect!? Im fairly new to the game, were talking months rather than years, so this was probably the moment where I properly found out how brutal and unforgiving poker can really be.

So I took 5 days off, playing no hands at all. I had very little desire to sit back down during this time, which surprised me. Do you think I was still tilted, just in a different way? Usually when I tilt, I want to play and win my money back immediately and end up making stupid decisions. But after Monday, it was the opposite.

Anyway, so I came back on Sunday and since then I just haven't got any traction at all, things just aren't working, that bit of luck you need to do well is just completely absent from my game at the minute. Im finding myself having to fold sets, straights, everything. |Just today after being card dead for God knows how long, I get AQ, flop a Q, and the guys re-raising me all in, I have to fold. Later: QJ, Jack comes, the guys got AJ. Its just feels like EVERY SINGLE TIME im beat or having to grind so hard to win any pot. Ive played a few thousand hands and the most ive been up is 1BI, at present im -1BI since I began playing on Sunday, after my break.

The only positive im taking from poker right now is knowing im making correct tough laydowns, so I could be in a worse position than I am now.

Is this just good old variance here? I think what im after is for some feedback on your memorable tough times at the tables and how you overcame them. Shall I take another few days off, and just continue to study etc for a few more days, or just keep grinding away and wait for variance to swing my way again? This bad luck is actually affecting my interest and admiration for poker!

Thanks in advance guys
 
itsmebobd

itsmebobd

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Sorry if this is going to sound a bit whiny/ranty but I need some sort of guidance and to hear others' experiences regarding this, I wouldnt be writing it if I didnt need/want some help :)

So last weekend I had some really good sessions, ended up finishing on Sunday night with something like +10BI since the Saturday morning. Was really positive and upbeat about my game and confidence was high, then, Monday came.

Im not joking, I probably played no more than 2 hours and ended up with -8BI, having spent God knows how long playing at the weekend. I played exactly the same. Got hit with FH over FH, Flush over Flush, Set over set, you name it. Needless to say on Monday night I was absolutely fuming, not whilst playing, I actually wasn't feeling tilted till maybe the last 1/2BI which is understandable. But I was so angry, began to question whether there is any point playing when bad luck can have this devastating effect!? Im fairly new to the game, were talking months rather than years, so this was probably the moment where I properly found out how brutal and unforgiving poker can really be.

So I took 5 days off, playing no hands at all. I had very little desire to sit back down during this time, which surprised me. Do you think I was still tilted, just in a different way? Usually when I tilt, I want to play and win my money back immediately and end up making stupid decisions. But after Monday, it was the opposite.

Anyway, so I came back on Sunday and since then I just haven't got any traction at all, things just aren't working, that bit of luck you need to do well is just completely absent from my game at the minute. Im finding myself having to fold sets, straights, everything. |Just today after being card dead for God knows how long, I get AQ, flop a Q, and the guys re-raising me all in, I have to fold. Later: QJ, Jack comes, the guys got AJ. Its just feels like EVERY SINGLE TIME im beat or having to grind so hard to win any pot. Ive played a few thousand hands and the most ive been up is 1BI, at present im -1BI since I began playing on Sunday, after my break.

The only positive im taking from poker right now is knowing im making correct tough laydowns, so I could be in a worse position than I am now.

Is this just good old variance here? I think what im after is for some feedback on your memorable tough times at the tables and how you overcame them. Shall I take another few days off, and just continue to study etc for a few more days, or just keep grinding away and wait for variance to swing my way again? This bad luck is actually affecting my interest and admiration for poker!

Thanks in advance guys

So you're up 2BI+ and complaining? Thats variance baby, thats poker, get used to it or get out..... Just being brutally honest
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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Your post seems to suggest that you believe you played just as well on Mon. as on the weekend. How certain are you? Did you look for thing you did or didn't do that were sub-optimal, not just good laydowns?

In this respect, you might also want to remember that laying down a hand that would have lost isn't automatically good. When you fold a hand that is +EV against the opponent's entire range and he turns to have a holding from the top of that range, that's not good.

Also, I get the impression you ran well over the weekend. If so, it's misleading to use that as a standard for comparison. This is in addition to the matter of normal short-term variance.
 
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cotta777

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The most important thing is to know when your beat in a hand. If you can accurately predict folding to be the right play in a specific situation and you still lose but save yourself money.
then in theory you are still winning long term since worse players will be payin us off in the exact same positions.

so even in losing sessions as long as we are folding when we know in most cases villain is not bluffing in a certain spot. And we know our coolers will run even over time we have to keep playing.

in fact I wouldn't even look at your bankroll during a session just focus on printing money and minimising the losses if you inevitably lose a session.
 
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LukeSilver

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I assume you are playing cash not sit and goes or tournaments.

before I go on I would like to establish there is no set way to play cash some of the best cash game players in the world have very wide ranges Tom Dwan is famous for this. I have noticed as I have worked more on my game I have been able to play a wider range.

the fact is though by the sounds of it you are doing things wrong. I have laid down over pairs before and been right I am not asking for a medal for that its not really so exceptional im still beating myself up today for calling of with kk on a QJ6 flop. one of them had the set the other AA.

you need to be honest with yourself are you able to sense when your beat are you likely to pick up if they have a bigger flush then you? if not you shouldn't be playing small suited hands its simple as Tom Dwan can play as wide as he does because he can read his opponents well and get away from nasty spots.

if your not able to do this I suggest keeping to a tight range, you wouldn't be frustrated or needing to ask if you were able to make these sought of lay downs and understand the game.
 
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TheNoobie

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Game is not brutal, you just see it that way now, that you are annoyed.
When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at will change. You did a good thing stepping away from poker for a while. I just read in another thread people recommending a book for the mindset of poker. Ive told it to innumerous people already, but to me one of the most important things in poker is the way you look at the game. If you like something, you show more interest about it - you get better. But, since it is a game of gambling and luck involved ( Many people will decline that, but it is totally true ) you need to understand that you cannot guarantee a win for a hand, unless you got the nuts and as you already know it doesnt happen often enough. So every time you put your chips into the middle you are not sure that you will get them back. Knowing that you need to remain calm, not get upset about stuff. As the guy mentioned above you ended up with +2BI, so this is the better way to look at the situation, instead of I lost 8BI .. You need to look at the positive side of the game, if you only bother yourself with negative your hair will go grey in a blink of an eye. Youre losing money when you lose a hand, so you wouldnt want to play when you are in a bad emotional spot, do your best to avoid these situations. If you play a tournament and you lose a hand that doesnt mean that you still cannot win. But if you just keep whining about stuff it will get you nowhere. In my oppinion thats exactly what noobs do in every game - they just complain constantly, not bothering theirselves with facts. And the fact is that there is a tiny bit or a huge chunk of luck involved, according to some people ( Oppinion differs for everybody ), until you realize that you will just keep getting in bad emotional places over lost hands.
No doubt that the hands you lost are tough, but you can overcome that, if you are willing. In order to become a greater player that you are now, you need to accept the game as it is, not as you want it to be.
Because everytime we lose a hand over luck we say "Why does this always happen to me", but when you win a hand over luck, you smile, feel good about yourself. You can tell me now, that these hands are the worst beats youve ever had in your poker career, but I bet that you had people beaten over luck in much worse situations. What about then? :)
My oppinion is surely different than any other person that answered to your question, and is not directed exactly to poker, but it can be useful for you if you get to the essence of it. Everything else can be learned - you can learn to play tight, loose, to calculate odds/outs. Everything about this game can be learned, but nobody can teach you what to do in a situation where you become emotionally upset and start losing money. Thats for you to find out about yourself.
Good luck, I hope you get your problemsover with and start actually having fun playing the game.
 
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loomis311

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everybody has bad runs and should be expected. what is important is how you deal with it. you should come back to the table when you feel you can make good decisions.
 
R

RickAversion

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began to question whether there is any point playing when bad luck can have this devastating effect!?

Play for fun.
NEVER quit your dayjob for gambling.
It ends in disaster 99% of the time.
 
Akorps

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You can't focus on the results in poker (except to make sure you aren't being cheated :), otherwise it will make you crazy :)

The only thing you can focus on is the decisions you make. Think in term of Sklansky mistakes, would you have made the same decisions if you could see the opponents cards? Think in terms of Sklansky dollars, did you have a positive EV when you put your money in?
 
K

kungfupanda1105

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No matter how well you think you play you must always remember luck plays a part in poker.. so losing is part of the game even if you played optimally
 
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Boriska797

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If you are unlucky you have to stop. After a rest time to get back to the table and play
 
Akorps

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One of the key tilt indicators is taking a bad beat. If taking a bad beat puts you on tilt, it is probably plus EV to quit immediately when it happens :)

Seems to be a curious aspect of the game, you do everything right, and still everything goes wrong. The brain doesn't seem to be evolved to handle that. So the gambling brain tends to switch on as you go on tilt, and you lose even more.
 
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hffjd2000

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First of, your experience is just normal online. You win some, you lose some. You lose some, you win some.
 
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