How do you 'know' what they have?
How deep are the stacks? (compared to blinds).
Did they openshove?
.. can't think of any instances where I'd ever be folding EVER though (but to pose a question it'd be good if you gave more info.).
This reminds me of the end of the tourney and just you and one person left with a 2:1 chip lead.
honestly, 55%-45% is right, so basically its a coin flip, if you want to race and take a chance at winning or losing and giving them the lead its up to you. If he just raised, i would just flat call without shoving and seeing if you nail the flop before you committ, the only danger is you dont know if they will hit trips or a boat.
But sometimes, its frustrating when u just call an all-in of a person with pockets and you having a big "premium hand" and you missing completely. After all, it still is a drawing hand even AK suited. But even the best players at WSOP will do it, its really just a personal choice and if you dont mind racing. But if a lot is at stake, you might wanna wait till the % is perfect or you have the nuts before committing.
folding them is even worse imoflatting with AQ/AK HU is just terrible.
How is flat calling terrible, many times a small pair will get scared of any over card, and if you bet strong hitting or missing, you will get a fold out of them. Like i said tho, poker is unpredictable and you will not know if he trips up, so if he plays back strong, you know to let your hand go. Whereas in your opinion, im assuming you are saying to shove over top, you will definitely lose your chips if they trip up or you miss your AQ or AK or any straight of flush draw and they do not get counterfeitted. I still wouldnt change my answer, i have proven it in my tourneys and have a very high success rate.flatting with AQ/AK HU is just terrible.
How is flat calling terrible, many times a small pair will get scared of any over card, and if you bet strong hitting or missing, you will get a fold out of them. Like i said tho, poker is unpredictable and you will not know if he trips up, so if he plays back strong, you know to let your hand go. Whereas in your opinion, im assuming you are saying to shove over top, you will definitely lose your chips if they trip up or you miss your AQ or AK or any straight of flush draw and they do not get counterfeitted. I still wouldnt change my answer, i have proven it in my tourneys and have a very high success rate.
Well yes, I did mean after flop/turn/river.For one, you want as much value for your two overs if something does hit. You also have fold equity if you 3bet shove. You say "if you bet hard you can then get them to fold" - I assume you mean post flop/turn/river?
Now while that is true, you can also get them to fold preflop if you have the fold equity there like I say OR better still they think you are shoving light and call. Either way, you have good equity.
As for you saying being played back at with a set we can fold our A,K, I assume you mean if we hit our Ace or King, you honestly expect and think it's good to be folding top pair, top kicker "if played back" let alone against a shorter stack in fear of them hitting a set which is unlikely and massive -EV to be folding?
Not saying it's always bad to flat with A,K - against the right person it's good play but we actually don't know blinds or anything at present as this wasn't posted.
I think that at the end of the day that calling all-in with A,K/A,Q vs an underpair is going to be flipping long term and be +EV most times, like this time for example when you have 2-1chip lead and short stack is going to be shoving wider your equity is always going to be more.
Dude, you don't get to make two accounts to bypass the daily posting limit. Banning this one; once you get to 65 posts on your other account you will no longer have posting restrictions.Well yes, I did mean after flop/turn/river.
I was also under the assumption that the other person would call a shove raise all-in preflop since he said the pockets were a 55% favorite to 45% . So i was assuming he would not fold if you reraise.
About hitting top pair top kicker either the ace or the king pairing up would be tough, but at least you would have the choice, I am not saying I would, especially if equity/pot odds were the right call. But I am saying you have a choice to fold whereas if the money is all in preflop, you automatically double him up if he trips or quads up and you do not make a better hand.
I agree with AK AQ suited or off that you do have +EV and you would be flipping a coin, in my first post I told him if you do not mind racing for the win, then make the call, and if there is too much at stake and you do not want to take a chance or gamble, then wait till the percentages are much higher or wait for your perfect spot post flop/turn/river.
There's too much LOL in this thread.
When you have AQ HU you are not flipping a coin, you are crushing. It is positively ridiculous to think someone always has a pair when they raise/reraise, especially HU with a wide stack disparity. It's beyond stupid to say someone's shoving range is 22-AA and doesn't include AJ.
There's too much LOL in this thread.
When you have AQ HU you are not flipping a coin, you are crushing. It is positively ridiculous to think someone always has a pair when they raise/reraise, especially HU with a wide stack disparity. It's beyond stupid to say someone's shoving range is 22-AA and doesn't include AJ.
secondly, i made this thread because ive been repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, losing with AK, AQ against pocket pairs.
one guy who lost like 10 times in a row to me started to just go all in every time since then. he even had nerve to call me an idiot after i called his 2-2 with AJs and LOST. (i even looked it up and i was preflop favorite LOL). oh and in another all in, he cracked my aces with 10-7o ffs
dude really? first of all, my read on this player was on the money. secondly, i made this thread because ive been repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, losing with AK, AQ against pocket pairs.
at my level every donk thinks pocket pairs are simply the nuts, and most of them will go all in every time. and its becoming frustrated because every time a donk goes all in and i have AK or AQ, im FORCED to gamble.
one guy who lost like 10 times in a row to me started to just go all in every time since then. he even had nerve to call me an idiot after i called his 2-2 with AJs and LOST. (i even looked it up and i was preflop favorite LOL). oh and in another all in, he cracked my aces with 10-7o ffs
I believe that's more in your head than anything, sure you lose a flip vs a pocket pair, you just have a tendency to forget the times you suckout and hit one of your outs vs a low pair.
Not sure what to make of your comment
"at my level every donk thinks pocket pairs are simply the nuts, and most of them will go all in every time. and its becoming frustrated because every time a donk goes all in and i have AK or AQ, im FORCED to gamble."
Firstly, you call these people donks for shoving their pair. They actually have a +EV shove here and equity to make money long term doing this. You have to remember, they actually a favourite, be it slight favourite 55%/45% or shorter 52%/47% if you hold A,K/A,Qs. This is also HEADSUPs, a pair is a monster Preflop and he's likely slightly ahead 299 out of 300 times even if only slightly ahead, all +ev.
I think the odds of both picking a pair PF is 300/1 so do the the maths.
Now you also have to remember, standard play, he raises, or you raises, one of you 3bets, the other 4betshoves. If he 4bet shoves and has you on a wideish range already, then he has even MORE equity than the actually equity of midpair/two overs and on top of that has the fold equity so no, I don't think shoving a medium pair is bad play, especially if like you say, he has a 2/1 chip disadvantage to you, this is the ONLY play to be doing with a medium pair assuming blinds have reached a decent level. Flatting with a medium pair short stack,mid stage of a HU SNG is generally bad play, most of the time an over cards hits.
You are never forced to gamble as you put it, it's not just a case of "ok gotta gamble here" you have to know what his range is for one and two realise people's ranges will widen when they are getting shorter (like in this case) you calling is not bad play and like him, based on everything it's both +EV long-term.
Stop trying to look at the smaller picture of saying about saying how you always lose a flip (clearly not, you said at the end you beat a guy 10times in a row really?) Anyway, point is, it's fine to call the shove a high percentage of the time with A,Q/A,Q as it has a long term +EV which is all that matters.
On another note, someone shoving all in every hand is a dream come true in my eyes, fold,fold,fold, sure he's picking up 10/20 in chips, just wait till you have a winning hand ev wise to his range to make a profitable call, even if you get sucked out of he hits some sick straight/flush you at least know it's a +EV call.
also you guys say that theres no way to know what hes shoving with but lets just assume for the sake of this thread that the shover has pocket pair. (most of the time my read is right)
but ultimately this begs the question. if hes +EV with pocket pair, and im -EV (although minimal) with AK or AQ, then why should i call? wouldnt that be a long term loss rather than win?
of course when im way up in chips its a good call because i can still rebound if i miss. but if a miss is gonna deal a game ending blow, should i just fold the AJ+ if my read on him is pocket pair.(again lets not debate whether he does or doesnt actually have a pocket pair, lets just assume he does)
and by the way yea of course i have hit my overcard vs pocket pair plenty of times, but i think overall since i started playing heads up, its been long term loss. enough loss that im posting this.
but seriously, if someone just straight shoves on you preflop and you hold AK or AQ suited, are you gonna fold that in any situation?