Beyond NLHE -January Chat Thread

slycbnew

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This is a bit of an experiment. There are several of us who play games beyond NLHE, which is clearly the most popular game here on the forums - thought it'd be fun to see if there's an interest in a general monthly discussion thread surrounding games outside of NLHE. The idea is to provide a central place where questions and discussions regarding games and strategy for all the other poker games could be found quickly.

If you're interested, pls post and subscribe!
 
slycbnew

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And since I created the thread, I'll take the liberty of kicking off w a general discussion topic for PLO (please post any other discussion topics whenever you feel like, this isn't intended to be a PLO thread, I would've named it as such if I'd meant it that way).

We open in position and get 3bet - what are we looking for in table dynamics, villain types, stack sizes, and hand types when deciding whether to fold, call, or 4bet? What are we looking for postflop if we end up playing a re-raised pot?
 
c9h13no3

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PLO is just for people who love variance.

EDIT - Serious discussion topic: PLO players post your standard deviation in big blinds please.
 
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would be interested in some basic strat discussion for O8, one of my 2010 goals is to lern and play some O8 cash and MTTs
 
slycbnew

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PLO is just for people who love variance.

EDIT - Serious discussion topic: PLO players post your standard deviation in big blinds please.

Yecccchhhhhhh - did ya have to make me look that up? I was very happy not knowing that number.

97 over 70k hands (and yes, I'm currently in a downswing :) ). My lifetime stdev for NLHE (750k hands) is 45.

What's your stdev for limit games? Do you play limit outside of stud?

would be interested in some basic strat discussion for O8, one of my 2010 goals is to lern and play some O8 cash and MTTs

I'm also interested - I'm pretty focused on PLO, but I play PLO8 and limit O8 occasionally.
 
c9h13no3

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What's your stdev for limit games? Do you play limit outside of stud?
I don't know for stud since Poker Tracker Stud is a pretty horrible piece of software. However, for LHE at $1/$2-$3/$6 its in the 35 big blind range.

For NLHE 6-max my standard deviation was 135 bb :O. More than your PLO numbers, but I was probably playing as laggy as possible 200bb's deep so.... yeah.....

I'm also interested - I'm pretty focused on PLO, but I play PLO8 and limit O8 occasionally.
I much prefer the limit game, but both games are pretty boring. Hell in Ray Zee's book on Omaha 8 he says in the "Why play Omaha 8" section that "Omaha 8 or better is not the most exciting game". That's the first thing he says when trying to convince you to play omaha 8.... sooo.... yeah....

Most of any omaha 8 game is going to be making nut hands and getting paid. PLO8 is a little different in that you can actually bluff, but at most limits bluffing is still a pretty minor consideration.

With the limit game, I feel like there's more opportunity for hand reading. If you can figure out who is going high, who is going low, it can lead to some good opportunities to jam some extra bets in the pot. Whereas with the big bet version of omaha 8, you're usually just making 2-way nut hands and shipping it.
 
skoldpadda

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Happy to discuss Stud 8 here as well. It's pretty much all I play (with some 7 game) these days.
 
PC69

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SLY.. I have a suggestion sir.. I like the title.. But while surfing the net I made mistake with the thread, I clicked on this one thinking it was the regular monthly chat thread.. Simply because of the January in the title.

So to make a long story short my suggestion would be to make the title Beyond NLHE January Chat thread. Just makes the first word different.

I think its pretty simple and will help us reg's not misclick...

Thoughts? Stupid Suggestion?
 
slycbnew

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SLY.. I have a suggestion sir.. I like the title.. But while surfing the net I made mistake with the thread, I clicked on this one thinking it was the regular monthly chat thread.. Simply because of the January in the title.

So to make a long story short my suggestion would be to make the title Beyond NLHE January Chat thread. Just makes the first word different.

I think its pretty simple and will help us reg's not misclick...

Thoughts? Stupid Suggestion?

Sent a pm to a mod asking for this...
 
Debi

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It wasn't me but I did it anyway - let me know if it is not what you wanted.
 
salim271

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Ahg I barely know how to play Omaha high... I emphasize barely.
 
slycbnew

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I much prefer the limit game, but both games are pretty boring. Hell in Ray Zee's book on Omaha 8 he says in the "Why play Omaha 8" section that "Omaha 8 or better is not the most exciting game". That's the first thing he says when trying to convince you to play omaha 8.... sooo.... yeah....

Most of any omaha 8 game is going to be making nut hands and getting paid. PLO8 is a little different in that you can actually bluff, but at most limits bluffing is still a pretty minor consideration.

With the limit game, I feel like there's more opportunity for hand reading. If you can figure out who is going high, who is going low, it can lead to some good opportunities to jam some extra bets in the pot. Whereas with the big bet version of omaha 8, you're usually just making 2-way nut hands and shipping it.

Jeff Hwang's argument for limit O8 is the low variance combined w the ease of beating the game (i.e., most people who play limit O8 don't have a good strategy), which leads to good winrate possibilities combined w low br requirements - again not a ringing endorsement of how fun it is, but a good justification.

I agree w limit O8 being the more interesting game tactically. I've had some success in micro PLO8 cuz it seems like nobody ever believes you have the 2way nut, ship = instant gratification, but it's a long time between those hands...
 
slycbnew

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I don't think this hand is worth posting in HA, just a quick check requested - rainbow flop, BTN is 26/7 others are around 80/10 half-stack donks, no brainer shove?

poker stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
UTG: $15.00
MP: $14.55
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $26.50
SB: $23.75
BB: $10.30
Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with 7 8 6 9
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $1, BTN calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75
Flop: ($5.10) 7 5 T (5 players)
BB bets $4.85, UTG folds, MP calls $4.85, Hero raises to $24 all in,
 
slycbnew

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Happy to discuss Stud 8 here as well. It's pretty much all I play (with some 7 game) these days.

Would love to see some Stud discussion, Hi or 8 - I'd eventually like to play HORSE competently, these are the biggest holes I have in HORSE.

If you have any suggested reading, pls let me know, I've read very little on Stud...
 
c9h13no3

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I don't think this hand is worth posting in HA, just a quick check requested - rainbow flop, BTN is 26/7 others are around 80/10 half-stack donks, no brainer shove?

Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com
UTG: $15.00
MP: $14.55
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $26.50
SB: $23.75
BB: $10.30
Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with 7 8 6 9
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $1, BTN calls $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75
Flop: ($5.10) 7 5 T (5 players)
BB bets $4.85, UTG folds, MP calls $4.85, Hero raises to $24 all in,
Aren't you supposed to 3-bet these things preflop? Or is it too small for that? And being really bad at PLO hi, this looks pretty standard.

As far as playing HORSE competently, the first thing you should do is get good at limit hold'em. Its by far the most important of the games to be proficient at, especially at tournaments, and doubly important in live tournaments where they use a timer rather than a hand count before changing games.
 
slycbnew

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Saw your LHE post in the monthly chat thread, PS is down, playing LHE now at UB lol
 
nevadanick

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I'm interested, but more in the stud and stud8 formats. Will also try to join some mixed game discussions but don't play them often enough.

Thx for taking on DM's 'variant challenge'. I used to have more time but have not been on as often as I used to be and can't commit to being able to subscribe/contribute to specific threads on a near-daily basis.

I'll be more than happy to help when and where I can. Any kind of section reserved for non-nlhe discussions
is a welcome addition in my book ... :D

BTW - Stars is back up and running.
-----------------------------------
 
slycbnew

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Aren't you supposed to 3-bet these things preflop? Or is it too small for that?

I still don't have a good feel for pf. I know I could've 3bet that, it's perfectly acceptable (8hi rundown would be more questionable maybe), but I wanted to play multiway cuz of the donks. Probably not the best place to do that tho, I'll hit too many non-nut hands. Hoping marginal, Tygran, BBB, or any of the other more exp PLOers wanders in here...
 
T

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I'd love to get some O8 discussion going. What stakes would you all say I should be playing with a $100 roll for limit. I would assume for PL I should be in .02/.05 much like NLHE.
 
slycbnew

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I'd love to get some O8 discussion going.

Great!

What stakes would you all say I should be playing with a $100 roll for limit.

I'll let someone else answer this one.

I would assume for PL I should be in .02/.05 much like NLHE.

Variance for PLO is much higher than NLHE. The most aggressive recommendation I've seen is 30bi's, the more conservative ones are 75-100bi's. So if you have a tight br requirement (i.e., you're not going to reload), $100 isn't enough for 5plo.
..
 
slycbnew

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Any kind of section reserved for non-nlhe discussions
is a welcome addition in my book ... :D

I think alot of us would be very happy to see more discussions of other games! It'd be fun to see this flourish!
 
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Aren't you supposed to 3-bet these things preflop? Or is it too small for that? And being really bad at PLO hi, this looks pretty standard.

As far as playing HORSE competently, the first thing you should do is get good at limit hold'em. Its by far the most important of the games to be proficient at, especially at tournaments, and doubly important in live tournaments where they use a timer rather than a hand count before changing games.


completely agree with that, my limit holdem is horrible atm, something i am working on though
 
Makwa

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Txs Nevada for the HU...

OK I'm getting confused already... too many variants being discussed at once...

Starters are crucial in all these games, more than NLHE where position and stack sizes can make any 2 playable sometimes...

Before discussing postflop strategy should we not talk starters?

Omaha: Wraps, double suited high cards are good. AA or KK not so. Need six combinations strong, not just a good HE hand with rag rag...

O8: A2 or A3, with two other good cards hi or lo, again looking for double suited.

Stud8: I go by Todd's Platinum Rule: If not 3 cards that can lead to a scoop, don't play (depending on what's showing on table and your board of course).

More to it than that, but its a start (lol)
 
kmixer

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You might be able to pull off 02/05 but BRM states you should be playng 02/04 ( I guess that is 02/05 at some places) and I would suggest 01/02 multitable instead until you are really beating the games.

I'd love to get some O8 discussion going. What stakes would you all say I should be playing with a $100 roll for limit. I would assume for PL I should be in .02/.05 much like NLHE.
 
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