Betting the best hand

The river has came and you know you have the best hand, do you make a bet where you think you are likely to get called and just get a few more chips or do you make a huge bet hoping someone will call you with a worse hand or if they think your bluffing, heres an example that I didnt know what most of you would do in the same spot.

pokerstars Game #17044685149: Tournament #86365483, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/04/27 - 23:20:54 (ET)
Table '86365483 5' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: CharginWapos (1515 in chips)
Seat 2: pokerfac777 (3920 in chips)
Seat 3: MuTTz (810 in chips)
Seat 4: xCaShiN_iNx (3335 in chips)
Seat 5: BridgePro100 (1475 in chips)
Seat 6: PRbigFish (1420 in chips)
Seat 7: Bloodmoney69 (1415 in chips)
Seat 9: Gomerlin (1385 in chips)
MuTTz: posts small blind 15
xCaShiN_iNx: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to xCaShiN_iNx [Qc Kc]
BridgePro100: folds
PRbigFish: folds
Bloodmoney69: raises 120 to 150
Gomerlin: folds
CharginWapos: calls 150
pokerfac777: folds
MuTTz: calls 135
xCaShiN_iNx: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [3d 6c 4c]
MuTTz: checks
xCaShiN_iNx: checks
Bloodmoney69: checks
Gomerlin said, "he limped in w/K2os, & called a raise...who's the idiot/"
CharginWapos: checks
*** TURN *** [3d 6c 4c] [Ac]
MuTTz: checks
xCaShiN_iNx: checks
Bloodmoney69: bets 120
CharginWapos: calls 120
MuTTz: calls 120
xCaShiN_iNx: raises 270 to 390
Bloodmoney69: calls 270
CharginWapos: folds
MuTTz: calls 270
*** RIVER *** [3d 6c 4c Ac] [8d]
MuTTz: checks

??????

Well if I added it all up right I think there is 1,890 chips in the pot and Muttz has only 270 chips left and bloodmoney has 875 left.

Since both players have hardly any chips left you'd be best just to put them all in in this situation.

Completly depends on your oponents.
Some time i whould just put out a tiny value bet but other times i whould overbet the pot hugely(against calling station for example).

I doubt any on can tell u what is right and what is wrong here if u dont post atlest something about your vilians playing still and range.

SeanyJ said:

Well if I added it all up right I think there is 1,890 chips in the pot and Muttz has only 270 chips left and bloodmoney has 875 left.

Since both players have hardly any chips left you'd be best just to put them all in in this situation.

Click to expand...

I'm generally going to bet small here, specifically because I want to get paid off by them both if I can manage it. I'm pretty sure that the guy with 270 left can't fold, so I want to bet an amount that makes it as likely as possible that I can get also call from the taller stack. I would probably put out a bet of about 175 or so, hoping that the bigger stack just flat calls, but the shorter stack comes over the top for his last 95 or so. I can then sandwich the taller stack by making one more reraise that will put them all-in.

The small bet also has the advantage of sometimes looking weak, which is to your benefit if it induces them to call or raise.

Put em all in. Betting small has it's place, but this isn't it. Their stacks are so small relative to the pot that if they're willing to call a small bet they should be wiling to get all-in. I actually prefer the big bet even when my opponent has a deeper stack. You don't have to get called all that often to make the big bet on the end show more profit long term than the little suck bet.

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on this topic. Recently I have been making massive overbet shoves on the river with the nuts/near nuts. I think it has been working fairly well and I dont get called as frequently as if I were to straight value bet it, but I get payed off huge if they do call. One thing to consider is how good your opponent is If my opponent seems like he is atleast a halfway decent player I wont try this, as they wont call off all their chips with just a pair. If your opponent is a huge donkey or someone that overvalues top pair I will make this move frequently as they will call a lot of the time.

KenFischer said:

I'm generally going to bet small here, specifically because I want to get paid off by them both if I can manage it. I'm pretty sure that the guy with 270 left can't fold, so I want to bet an amount that makes it as likely as possible that I can get also call from the taller stack. I would probably put out a bet of about 175 or so, hoping that the bigger stack just flat calls, but the shorter stack comes over the top for his last 95 or so. I can then sandwich the taller stack by making one more reraise that will put them all-in.

The small bet also has the advantage of sometimes looking weak, which is to your benefit if it induces them to call or raise.

Click to expand...

You really want to bet 175 into a ~1900 chip pot? Generally if these guys are going to call a bet that leaves them with like 400 chips if they lose they are going to call an all in bet. You are hoping for a lot of things if you want the "big" stack to flat call and then the short stack to shove in so you can shove over the top of that. It just makes more sense to shove and expect a call from one if not both.

SeanyJ said:

You really want to bet 175 into a ~1900 chip pot? Generally if these guys are going to call a bet that leaves them with like 400 chips if they lose they are going to call an all in bet. You are hoping for a lot of things if you want the "big" stack to flat call and then the short stack to shove in so you can shove over the top of that. It just makes more sense to shove and expect a call from one if not both.

Click to expand...

I'm not convinced you can expect both of them to call. You're holding the 1st and second nut cards in your hand - there isn't much left for a decent player to think that they are ahead with - maybe they can't lay down TPTK, but I could, and so could a lot of other people who play $10 SNGs.

I would probably bet the amount of the short stack +a little. Short Stack will probably call and push. Then the larger stack, if they have anything, will either fold, call and pay you off, or push thinking you're just trying to buy the pot.

These of course could very, but my thoughts...

Bet: $0
Blood: check
** you made no $$, obviously not the right choice

Bet: $270
MuTTz: Wow, Cashin is pretty confident they has me, I'd better fold and see another day
Blood: Cashin knows they has MuTTz beat so, I'm probably beat.... better fold
** again no $$

Bet: $300
MuTTz: That's kind of a weak bet into the large pot, and I'm SS, so I'll call
Blood: I'm getting good odds here, I'll call (or) Cashin's betting weak into a large pot, plus I have MuTTz $$, I'm going to push.
** you make @ least $540 more, if not more.

Bet: $875(+)
MuTTz: Wow, Cashin is trong enough to cover both stacks, I'll fold and see another day
Blood: Wow, Cashin feels they have me beat and I still have plenty of $$ left, I'll fold and see another day
** again no $$

Of course, blood is to act before Muttz, so that could change how MuTTz acts depending on Dlood's actions.

Harrington actually did an example (although it was the cash games book) where he basically showed that most of the time even if it was a slight overbet that the best move with the nuts was an all-in. You're going to be called less but when you do get called you win more.