Being pessimistic (Poker philosophy)

azforlife · Aug 18, 2019

It seems my wins are passed of as trivial but losses always teach more than wins, coming close to a couple big tourneys makes me wonder.. Is poker teaching us to be pessimistic? As I find poker to provide many allegories to life, is this one valid? Especially in tournaments? I find myself crushed every time I'm top 10 stack in a tourney, I think there's value to thinking this way, just thought I'd share on my favorite forum

MiCephia · Aug 18, 2019

I think it's ridiculous sometimes. I can't afford to play larger tourneys so I win tickets to them, And yeah no matter how well I do first couple hours it seems I always get crushed before money with ridiculous bad beat such as Being 3rd in tourney, go into a hand against chip leader. Get JJ whole cards, flop comes JKK, I end up all in eventually as he keeps betting into me only to see he has KJ at the end and I am out of tourney from 3rd place, about 20 people from money in that tourney. Last money place paid $3000 and change and I couldn't even make it to that.

I could tell you about more like that too. Makes me wonder if their is a prejudice against people who deposit and people who win tickets.

How's that for pessimistic?

VivicvrMga · Aug 18, 2019

I think everyone who plays feels that way sometimes

pjokay · Aug 18, 2019

Part of it is view point. You have to thinks of all the flips you have to win in a tournament, and of course the one that busts you at the end is always the most poignant. But it's easy to forget all the ones that helped get your that far.

When you get really far though, raise/shove correctly and absolute trash calls and wins it can be hard to not let it get to you.

8bod8 · Aug 18, 2019

Dont confuse pessimist with realist.

MattRyder · Aug 18, 2019

pjokay said:
Part of it is view point. You have to thinks of all the flips you have to win in a tournament, and of course the one that busts you at the end is always the most poignant. But it's easy to forget all the ones that helped get your that far.

When you get really far though, raise/shove correctly and absolute trash calls and wins it can be hard to not let it get to you.

Good point, however I try to avoid as many pure flips as possible, other than freerolls where there doesn't seem to be any other way to play.

The ones that I really hate, and which I see a lot of, are when I do end up all-in pre-flop, or even on the flop, am clearly ahead with AK or KK v A7 (or something similar) and the A7 inevitably wins. It's crazy!

PaxMundi · Aug 18, 2019

I would of thought the opposite is true you have to be optimistic to enter a tournament other wise you wouldn't enter it.

Pulsar · Aug 18, 2019

It seems to me that poker stars cultivate faith not in pessimism as a lifestyle, but in the ideology of moronism! My last games confirm the formula that it is impossible to win in poker stars without luck, and the more stupid the player,the more stack, since neither the chance of the Bank,nor the poker calculator in most cases does not work!

FoxMS · Aug 19, 2019

People take victory for granted and defeat as injustice. I think that you should always be positive and enjoy the game and life in general.

MishkaZL · Aug 19, 2019

For me poker is a very useful hobby. Through this game, I became more patient and disciplined. I think poker is a great brain trainer.

19aleks57 · Aug 19, 2019

It all depends on the character of the player ...

Rahatis · Aug 19, 2019

Just have fun with your bad luck and be happy that you can always have the opportunity to play one more game! Results may or may not come soon.

Therminator · Aug 19, 2019

Bad days happen, and the more you play the more often you'll get bad beats no matter how well you end up playing in the end. Poker is more of a game about perseverance more than anything else and it shows based on the willingness to play more even after having a run of bad luck.

Matt_Burns88 · Aug 19, 2019

I like reading these kinds of threads. It reminds me it's not just me that hits massive coolers. I've been playing some of the best poker of my life in the last couple of weeks, but sometimes you're just destined to lose. Twice yesterday I flopped the A high flush, once I was beaten by a straight flush and the other by a rivered full house. Nothing you can do sometimes but still makes you want to smash your mouse through your computer screen. Once I've calmed down I can tell myself that I would play the hand the same way 100 times over and would lose them all, but that's just poker. For every bitch hand like that, there'll be 1000's where I'm good and will take all the money.

azforlife · Sep 19, 2019

Wow, didn't expect this much participation, very pleasantly surprised! It means I'm not the only one leaning towards this mentality, 8bod8 said could be also seen as realism & maybe this term defines what I feel more as we're all optimistic as someone mentioned to enter tourney after tourney

Glad this post resonated with you all!
I think as I keep gettin pro-fessional, I need to lose a lot of the recreational player traits & take away as much of the emotional aspects of poker to be level-headed during those high intense moments when your decision making has to be pristine so I'll try to be as realistic as possible when it comes to MTTs.
Wish you all some run good, just not against me

Cheers

swoopdonk · Sep 19, 2019

I've had so many bad beats I've come to the realization that maybe that's the way it is and rather than dwell on the losses to relish my wins which ultimately will outnumber your bad beats.. Especially when a trap works perfectly....I love when that happens.

izpanol · Sep 19, 2019

I don't think it's healthy to compare poker with real life, poker is not so unpredictable

charliej · Sep 19, 2019

Bad beats are inevitable. Note what happened and try to not repeat. You will be on the winning end of some as well.

Batarang96 · Sep 19, 2019

I think that the closest poker comes to teaching one to be pessimistic, is its enforcement of 'be prepared for the worst'. Murphy's Law; that kind of thing. I don't think that these things necessarily equate to pessimism, but I'm not sure that their connotations are positive, either.

rfbh54 · Sep 19, 2019

You need to play always with optimism, then there will be a chance to win, and if you play with pessimism, you will constantly lose.

zinzir · Sep 20, 2019

Poker is a game of negative expectation for the vast majority of players. Even without rake there would be more losers than winners every single day, but rake mercilessly removes money from the table hand after hand, so the proportion of winners is dramatically reduced. Only the very skilled and experienced players can realistically expect to be winners, and even those elite players require large intervals of continuous play to maintain profitability, as no one can realistically expect to win on a particular session or day, no matter how high the skill level. So in this aspect, poker is not an allegory of life, poker is worse than life, because in life you can achieve profitability by being mediocre in the vast majority of professions, but in poker you have to be way above average just to break even.

tehb1987 · Sep 20, 2019

MattRyder said:
Good point, however I try to avoid as many pure flips as possible, other than freerolls where there doesn't seem to be any other way to play.

The ones that I really hate, and which I see a lot of, are when I do end up all-in pre-flop, or even on the flop, am clearly ahead with AK or KK v A7 (or something similar) and the A7 inevitably wins. It's crazy!

I understand that. Very often I find myself in such a situation. AK vs A9... 9 reaches the river

MishkaZL said:
For me poker is a very useful hobby. Through this game, I became more patient and disciplined. I think poker is a great brain trainer.

And heart coach. How it booms when unnecessary cards are revealed at the turn

In General, it is very difficult to perceive the game of poker indifferently. Quite a few wrong turns. So that optimism in this case and only optimism. Otherwise and play sense there is no

finaltable1 · Sep 20, 2019

azforlife said:
It seems my wins are passed of as trivial but losses always teach more than wins, coming close to a couple big tourneys makes me wonder.. Is poker teaching us to be pessimistic? As I find poker to provide many allegories to life, is this one valid? Especially in tournaments? I find myself crushed every time I'm top 10 stack in a tourney, I think there's value to thinking this way, just thought I'd share on my favorite forum

The higher you climb up, the the harder you fall down.

Your problem is Tilt control.
Tilt comes after obvious facts of bad luck, but it also comes from big wins. You will start feeling wings behind your back and feel yourself like you're flying up above the clouds after several big wins, but keep in mind that in reality you're still sitting at that chair, and you will have to keep making the right decisions.

If you feel positive or negative tilt it's better to take a break, it's really important to take a break and get rid of the tilt.

If you're in top 10 stacks then ask yourself couple of questions:
1) How much time left till the HU? YOu have to know average duration of the tournament you're playing. Is it 5-7-10 hour long tournament?
2) How much time left till the money bubble?
3) How much time will you survive in this tournament if you will close poker and shut down your PC right now?

If you see that it's 1 hour left till the money and your stack is good enough to just sit and fold for next 2.5 hours then why not just take a break and leave for 1hour or more? I often just click sitout button and just observe the game, I only sit back in when I see that I get QQ/KK/AA and depending on opponents stacks I might play it passively or aggressively. Main goal at this stage is to save the stack for the late stage of the game when you'll be paid...

When you're in the money and payjumps are not high yet - it's the time to build a stack or go out of the tournament, it's the time when you have to steal blinds with very marginal hands and go or call all-ins with much loose hands than you've played before.

There is no room for optimistic or pessimistic decisions in poker, you have to know what's going on right now and what you have to do in the nearest future, that's all. And with time you'll start to ignore these bad or good feelings after your lucky wins or bad beats, cause tilt isn't a helping friend who is going to increase your bankroll.

martina pinto · Sep 20, 2019

Being a pessimist is a factor that happens to many players ... like when we have been winning a hand and the card crosses us that can turn us into a good result, many times with our pessimism we call it and it comes out and there our collapses play .. that's why you always have to have a positive thought.

azforlife · Sep 20, 2019

finaltable1 said:
The higher you climb up, the the harder you fall down.

Your problem is Tilt control.
Tilt comes after obvious facts of bad luck, but it also comes from big wins. You will start feeling wings behind your back and feel yourself like you're flying up above the clouds after several big wins, but keep in mind that in reality you're still sitting at that chair, and you will have to keep making the right decisions.

If you feel positive or negative tilt it's better to take a break, it's really important to take a break and get rid of the tilt.

If you're in top 10 stacks then ask yourself couple of questions:
1) How much time left till the HU? YOu have to know average duration of the tournament you're playing. Is it 5-7-10 hour long tournament?
2) How much time left till the money bubble?
3) How much time will you survive in this tournament if you will close poker and shut down your PC right now?

If you see that it's 1 hour left till the money and your stack is good enough to just sit and fold for next 2.5 hours then why not just take a break and leave for 1hour or more? I often just click sitout button and just observe the game, I only sit back in when I see that I get QQ/KK/AA and depending on opponents stacks I might play it passively or aggressively. Main goal at this stage is to save the stack for the late stage of the game when you'll be paid...

When you're in the money and payjumps are not high yet - it's the time to build a stack or go out of the tournament, it's the time when you have to steal blinds with very marginal hands and go or call all-ins with much loose hands than you've played before.

There is no room for optimistic or pessimistic decisions in poker, you have to know what's going on right now and what you have to do in the nearest future, that's all. And with time you'll start to ignore these bad or good feelings after your lucky wins or bad beats, cause tilt isn't a helping friend who is going to increase your bankroll.

What up final table?
Found a lot of nuggets in your answer, re-reading it looks like a chapter out of a book.
I never looked at it that way, @ how long will it take??? As DJ Khaled would say I'd say major key

Wow!
You really hit the nail on the head I think, it's like there's no way I could win, I got winner's tilt for sure & being a freeroll whore doesn't help. I was just top 8 in the Casino Org freeroll , punted my stack in the end with 15 BB tryin to make limpers fold with Q10s got called by QKs but I think that's for another thread

Man you should write a book! Seriously! I'll take your advice to heart! Thanks for sharing!

Being pessimistic (Poker philosophy)

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