beginning players w/ bankrolls too large for their skill

rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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I know there are threads about bankroll management, but I had a question about my specific situation.

To re-cap first.... There are a few guidelines I've seen out there for Holdem BRs:
  1. Go up a level when your BR reaches 500x BB, and go down if you drop below 300x BB. (This is by far the most common suggestion.)
  2. Don't go up unless you've won at least 100BB at that limit.
  3. Play for at least 100 hrs (total hrs, meaning multitabling counts cumulatively towards your hrs) at your level before moving up.
  4. Your BB/100 should be at least +3 or better.
  5. All of the above.
So here's my situation: I came into about $1,500 out of nowhere lately :) and decided not to buy some new electronic gadgets or something stupid, but to invest it in this new, fun hobby of mine... well at least for now, until I see how things turn out.

I am fairly new to poker (only playing recreationally w/ friends) and have been playing online for a while at mostly at micro limits. I've been winning pretty consistently (def over 3BB/100), since I originally started at the lowest .02-04 limit, and I've been very slow & cautious about at moving up in the micros.

According to suggestion #1 above (the one I've seen most often) I could in theory afford to play $2-$4 right now, but I truly don't think I'm ready for that level and would likely get beaten up. I don't want to see my bankroll disappear quickly, so I'd rather be ultra-cautious and start from the ground up.

So my questions is, for someone like me who has a bankroll which probably far exceeds the stakes I'm skilled enough to play at this point, what guidelines should I follow? And if/when I reach the point where I'm playing within that 300 to 500x BB level, how should I proceed from there? Are suggestions #2-4 (above) worth obeying instead? Or perhaps in conjunction with #1 as well? Thanks.
 
RichKo

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  1. Go up a level when your BR reaches 500x BB, and go down if you drop below 300x BB. (This is by far the most common suggestion.)
  2. Don't go up unless you've won at least 100BB at that limit.
  3. Play for at least 100 hrs (total hrs, meaning multitabling counts cumulatively towards your hrs) at your level before moving up.
  4. Your BB/100 should be at least +3 or better.
  5. All of the above.

Huh...500BB, thats only 5 buy ins, unless I'm reading something wrong here. You should have at least 20 buy ins minimum which would be more like 2000BB

and dont go up till you win 100BB... Since 1 buy in is 100BB, once again I must say huh. Someone please correct me if I'm reading this wrong.

My understanding of BRM $1500 which would be 15 buy ins at .50/1.00 is still to low for that level. You should be playing .25/.50 till you have at least 2K.
 
pantin007

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is it that hard to realize he is talking about limit? not everything is nl

u dont have to invest all ur money, just put a little bit, say 150$ on and try playing 25c/50c and try to grind ur way up to 2/4

if uve only played 2c/4c, trust me, u will lose at 2/4 because the difference in play is so huge that by the time u adjust u wont have that much money left
 
rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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is it that hard to realize he is talking about limit? not everything is nl

u dont have to invest all ur money, just put a little bit, say 150$ on and try playing 25c/50c and try to grind ur way up to 2/4

if uve only played 2c/4c, trust me, u will lose at 2/4 because the difference in play is so huge that by the time u adjust u wont have that much money left

Uuug (blush.) Yes, I was talking about limit -- totally forgot to mention that -- and it's just cash games that I'm playing ... for now. NL is something I plan on playing in the near-ish future, but I know the bankroll guidelines are pretty different for NL.

So basically the answer is that despite feeling pretty confident at the tiny micro's I've played so far, I should slowly grind my way up & take it from there? And yes to #2, about winning 100BB first?
 
pantin007

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slowly grind ur way up yes but u should only move up when u feel confident that u have consistently beaten the stake ur at and are rolled for the next level and u have to also be confident that u can beat the next level
 
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LarryT503

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What poker site or sites are you playing at? Something I would recommend is playing in sit'ngo tourneys, especially double-ups where 5 of 10 entrants win double their buy-in. Also try to get away from limit games so you can learn better betting strategy.
 
white_lytning

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If those posts were the voices of reasons, mine is going to be the complete opposite so please take it in that respect.

I would get insanely bored playing .25/.50 limit with a $1500 roll. My personality just does not allow me to do things like that. I would much rather take a shot at a game with real stakes with fewer buy ins, then play it super safe and be bored in the process. Is it a weakness in my game? Maybe. But its one I realize is there.

Its different because you are learning the game, and you have to understand that maybe you will lose some but should turn that around quickly if you are smart (which is seems like you are).

This is what I would do. Note that I don't adhere to strict br management and put myself in riskier situations that suggested by some. I would take 100 or 150 of it and play low stakes until I was feeling confident. Then I go for the gusto. I add what ever is left to the account and play a game I have maybe 5 or 6 buy ins to. Because its limit, i'm not going to swing as much and don't mind taking the chance. It will be much more interesting, challanging, and rewarding if done with positive results.

Conservative BR management is not a bad idea, but I see it as a method of primarily protecting ones' self from going broke. It sacrifices immediate possible gains in order to protect a player. I see it as a protection first/gains later. Thats the part that turns me away from it. If you are young, and don't need the $1500 to pay your bills or food, then whats the worst that can happen? You lose the $1500 playing a game you will enjoy more, with a possibility of earining more.

To each his own. But I would definately take some time to get used to playing before using all of it. Develop a game you are confident in.
 
rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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What poker site or sites are you playing at?
Stars and Full Tilt ... of course. ;) They've got traffic that's just non-existent at the Cereus & Cake networks -- which I've heard may have more fish, but I cant shoot fish that are not there at the kind of game I'm looking for, no?

Something I would recommend is playing in sit'ngo tourneys, especially double-ups where 5 of 10 entrants win double their buy-in. Also try to get away from limit games so you can learn better betting strategy.
I would like to play NL at some point, and probably not that far in the future, but I figured that playing limit for a while would be a good way to really get the basics of the game down, the #'s, strategies that would apply in some respects to NL as well. Is that a misconception on my part? Could be. (Btw, right now while building my skills I also like that the less intense swings.)

Conservative BR management is not a bad idea, but I see it as a method of primarily protecting ones' self from going broke. It sacrifices immediate possible gains in order to protect a player. I see it as a protection first/gains later. Thats the part that turns me away from it. If you are young, and don't need the $1500 to pay your bills or food, then whats the worst that can happen? You lose the $1500 playing a game you will enjoy more, with a possibility of earining more.

Yeah, I hear you. But for someone like me (and I'm sure many of you) $1500 is a pretty nice chunk of change ... although, as I said earlier, it's a chunk I'm happy to NOT blow away on some shiny new toy. It's not grocery money, but I'd hate to see it evaporate only to leave a bitter taste in my mouth before giving it a chance to maybe paying off big down the road.

Anyhow, thanks gang for you're great replies.
 
dufferdevon

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Take your time. If you have just started, there is no reason for you to go to the highest limit "just because you can". Wait until you can beat a certain level consistently, then move up. There is no rush and poker is a game you can play for life, and with $1500 to start, there is no reason that should be the last deposit you ever make.

I'd also recommend investing in HEM or PokerTracker while you can. Learn to use these tools to your advantage.
 
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ted80

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wanna have some fun with it? set aside a certain amount of it you can consider expendable...100 or 200 or so. enter in some bigger tourney's or something and just try to have some not-so-serious fun in them. if you want to play NL, then allocate a certain amount you're willing to lose playing micro with that. i'm not a ring player but, if i had a million, i'd still try to make sure i could profit at the bottom stakes, no matter how boring, before i move up...i mean, you have to take the majority of that little sum seriously
 
rowhousepd

rowhousepd

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Like I said, I'm going to Limit for the time being.

One more question though: Should a beginner like me be playing mostly cash games for now, MTTs, or SnGs? So far I've been playing maybe 85% cash, 15% MTTs, and bascially no SnGs -- mostly becasue SnGs involve short handed & heads-up play, and thus far I haven't read up or practiced much of either. Is that the wrong approach to take?
 
Paw_kit Aces

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Like I said, I'm going to Limit for the time being.

mostly becasue SnGs involve short handed & heads-up play, and thus far I haven't read up or practiced much of either. Is that the wrong approach to take?

Well if you would like to try your hand at Sngs, but want to "read up" I would suggest Sit 'n Go Strategy by Collin Moshman, in my oppion the bible of proper SnG strategy. :)
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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