Asking someone for a count.

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bgomez89

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Recently I was in a live tournament at a casino that I usually go to. Im in MP and I look down at KTo. I have a decent amount and open with a standard raise and get called by a slightly shortstacked older man on the button.

The flop comes up something pretty dry like Q 4 3 rainbow and I was deciding whether or not I should just shove to hopefully get him to fold out. I wanted to know how much of my stack would be lost if he called and won so I asked for a chip count. The man gets pretty offended and starts going off on me(im 20 years old i dont know if that made it worse or not) saying things like, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN HOW MUCH JUST MAKE A BET! RAR RAR RARRRARAARAR"
The dealer counts it for me and i figure that it's too much for me to risk so I check and the old man goes 'WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? ALL THAT AND YOU CHECK?!" then shoves, i fold and he slams his cards on the table showing QQ for a set.

I couldn't believe that he reacted that way and I was always told that you're allowed to ask players how much and the dealer has to count it for you. Is asking for a count one of those things that are allowed but not supposed to be done at a live table(like asking a player who mucks their cards at showdown to show)?
 
Steves22

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Personally I don't care what is proper etiquette. You asking for a count saved you a lot of money. So what you hurt some feelings or disgruntle some ppl along the way. I'll quote Phil Hellmuth when he said "When i'm at the table even with my friends poker is war. Then after we can go out for drinks or whatever."
 
No Brainer

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It is allowed and you can do it anytime you are in a hand with someone. Although if you are keeping track of whats happening at your table you should know roughly how much he has before you start the hand.
 
Grossberger

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Absolutly it's allowed and unlike asking to see mucked cards is not frowned upon, with that said a player does not have to tell you he can sit quiet, but the dealer will count for you if a count is asked for. Asking for a count is done for a couple reasons.
1.) Say villian raises preflop and you look at KQ you ask for a count to see what percentage of his stack he is risking with his raise if its a signficant amount then he probably has a big hand, and probably folding would be the right move. Also if villian bets and you want to know what his count is to see if you were to raise if he is priced in and will have to call with any 2 just due to simple math.

2.) To get a read on an opponent, If villian bets and you ask how much he has left you may pick up a nervousness in his voice if he answers you which could mean hes weak and you possibly could steal here.

3.) To see if you were to shove all in how much of your stack is at risk if called.

There may be other reasons but those are the main 3 for me to ask for a count.
 
tpb221

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1. His big chips should be out in front. You are not allowed to hide big chips.
2. You are allowed to ask. Yes, it is acceptable to ask.
3. He does not have to answer. In a big game/tourney I will not answer. I just spread my hands pointing at the chips. He can count them or the dealer. You should be keeping track of your opponents stacks at all times. Don't always need a exact count-a good estimate is good. In small buy-in/friendly games I'll let them know if I got them covered or not.
3. He over reacted like an idiot. For some reason I have seen more the one player act like this. Don't know what it is.
 
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luckforsome

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..id say that the reason he acted like this ( apart from the arse thing)...when you asked for a count and he had a set he figured that youd be beting..and by trying to piss you off by saying these things he would have more chance of you bluffing..then when you checked and folded he got pissed off becase he realsied youd prob have bet if he didnt berate you
 
peacebrother

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asking for a chip count can work in the right situation. I dont think you where in the right situation LOL
Oh yea fold pre.
 
OzExorcist

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You did nothing wrong and I think the old guy's reaction was hilarious.

As long as you're not doing dumb things like asking over and over when it's obvious what the answer is nobody should ever hold it against you. They're within their rights to refuse to answer, in which case the dealer can count for you though abusing that privilege won't make you popular with any dealer you'll ever have :p
 
Pbland

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I too think the old guy's reaction is priceless. When he turned those QQs over I would've had to chuckle. I think he was trying to do anything he could to get you to make a bet. He wanted to get all his money in the pot any way he could. I wouldn't worry too much about what you did.
 
Kasanova King

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You can ask but your opponent can also refuse. You can ask the dealer and then he/she will give you an estimate.
 
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it's perfectly ok to ask for a count. he reacted like an idiot
 
Nexus6

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It's allowed . The only reason he he acted like that was to induce you to call ..
 
ukaliks

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old man = stupid.
Gave away tells, acted like a little girl, flipped over some information for the whole table.
 
lektrikguy

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It's part of the game. If you get to where you're checking stacks every hand then it might be too much, but it's just how it goes. Let the old fart stew. I might wait a few hands then ask him again just to tilt him.
 
salim271

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1. His big chips should be out in front. You are not allowed to hide big chips.

lol funny you should mention that... my friend and i were heads up playing, he stuck like the 4 big chips he had in the back, so i miscounted when i estimated his stack and called his all in... pretty annoying when i became the shortstack when I thought I was only risking 30 percent of my chips... :/
 
Sean Pilgrim

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I too think the old guy's reaction is priceless. When he turned those QQs over I would've had to chuckle. I think he was trying to do anything he could to get you to make a bet. He wanted to get all his money in the pot any way he could. I wouldn't worry too much about what you did.

Hmm, super fish, flat called a PFR from OP, Used a horrible acting tell, OP checks, Old Man says all in... Get's no value whatsoever from this hand, could have checked behind and played like a real player, idiot, showing his hand to you was good info but pointless to show, there are 3 Q's in play... Likelihood of you holding AQ is extremely slim... total donktard stacked off not knowing he would only win a small pot.

It's allowed . The only reason he he acted like that was to induce you to bet ..

FYP
 
tpb221

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lol funny you should mention that... my friend and i were heads up playing, he stuck like the 4 big chips he had in the back, so i miscounted when i estimated his stack and called his all in... pretty annoying when i became the shortstack when I thought I was only risking 30 percent of my chips... :/

I know this was when you were playing with a 'friend' but I believe(I could be wrong) in a tourney you can ask for a ruling and they can disallow the big chips to be in play cause they were not in front.
 
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the old man goes 'WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? ALL THAT AND YOU CHECK?!" then shoves, i fold and he slams his cards on the table showing QQ for a set.
Did you say 'Well played'?
 
doops

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He behaved badly. You are certainly allowed to ask.

I never knew that big chips were supposed to be in front. Good to know.
 
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Ask him for a count after he scoops the pot.
 
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ph_il

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haha i think i just laughed it off and kept saying, "whats wrong with asking for a count?"
Yeah, I've seen some horrible plays in live games. One that came to mind...

$1/$2 blinds. I'm sitting on about $400, Villain is sitting on about $300

I get 89s in mid, raise it up to $7, folds to villain who calls from BB.

Flop is 28Kr, villain checks, I c-bet a small $9 to see where I'm at (flop isn't too bad), villain instantly stands up and goes I'M ALL IN!!!

...Easy muck for me. I think I say something along the lines of 'Good hand.' as I fold.

Villain throws down KK for a set. I think the whole table and the dealer goes...'WTF are you doing?' and I threw in a small jab in like 'Ouch, you took $16 off me with that monster. I'm gunning for you, now.'
 
Sean Pilgrim

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Yeah, I've seen some horrible plays in live games. One that came to mind...

$1/$2 blinds. I'm sitting on about $400, Villain is sitting on about $300

I get 89s in mid, raise it up to $7, folds to villain who calls from BB.

Flop is 28Kr, villain checks, I c-bet a small $9 to see where I'm at (flop isn't too bad), villain instantly stands up and goes I'M ALL IN!!!

...Easy muck for me. I think I say something along the lines of 'Good hand.' as I fold.

Villain throws down KK for a set. I think the whole table and the dealer goes...'WTF are you doing?' and I threw in a small jab in like 'Ouch, you took $16 off me with that monster. I'm gunning for you, now.'

LOL I love it when people do stupid crap like that with monsters. It would have sucked if you had a set of 8's vs. a set of Kings... sickness
 
blueskies

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i talk to old dudes on my job all the time. a lot of them are just angry for no reason.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Did you say 'Well played'?

the correct thing to say is clearly "well i was gonna shove but your little act persuaded me not to"
 
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