Asked to see mucked cards

This from the wsop today.

Devil-Fished

With the board reading , Dave 'Devilfish' Ulliott check-raised a 1,000 bet to 3,750 against the button before firing out a further 6,000 on the river. His opponent shrugged, eventually throwing in the chips and Ulliott said, "You got it pal." But the button requested to see the cards and Ulliott showed the stone bluffing which was barely playing the board against the button's .

I don't play alot of live poker, but I thought it was considered bad etiquette to request to see the cards once a player has given up on the hand.

This isn't soooo bad, for a couple of reasons:

1 - The player that wanted to see the cards was the same one that had paid to see them. If a player that folded before showdown wanted to do the same thing, it probably gets viewed differently.

2 - It's Devilfish, so LOL.

EDIT: Read it back again, and it seems I'm just assuming that the button was his opponent. If it wasn't, point 1 doesn't stand. I think point 2 is the more important one in either case though

'Bad etiquette' doesn't make it against the rules.

OzExorcist said:

EDIT: Read it back again, and it seems I'm just assuming that the button was his opponent. If it wasn't, point 1 doesn't stand. I think point 2 is the more important one in either case though

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I don't believe it was an active player in the hand that asked for the show.

I don't mind this at all. There are players that will do what devilfish did, saying you've got it, get a guy to show his hand out of turn, and then say something like, "Oh that's all you've got? Well I have that beat!" Then show their hand and take the pot.

Because devilfish made the last bet on the river and the other player called, devilfish had to show his cards first, which the other player exercised.

What people hate is say devilfish flipped his hand over and had the QJ, then the other guy mucked. Then devilfish says, I wanna see that hand. He actually has the right to view those mucked cards, and that is what's considered bad form.

Paw_kit Aces said:

This from the WSOP today.

Devil-Fished

With the board reading

, Dave 'Devilfish' Ulliott check-raised a 1,000 bet to 3,750 against the button before firing out a further 6,000 on the

river. His opponent shrugged, eventually throwing in the chips and Ulliott said, "You got it pal." But the button requested to see the cards and Ulliott showed the stone bluffing

which was barely playing the board against the button's

.

I don't play alot of live poker, but I thought it was considered bad etiquette to request to see the cards once a player has given up on the hand.

Click to expand...

Quite the contrary, your wrong. I often play in casino card rooms/brick & mortar rooms. There are a few advantages to request mucked cards face up:

- You have the opportunity to see how he played his position in the hand
- This gives you the idea which starting hands he's playing prefolp ( determining how loose/tight )
- Plants a seed telling players " Spare yourself the embarrassment. Don't ever bluff me! "

These are a few examples why. Don't hesitate to exercise this rule, you've earned it no matter what anyone says.

robert_wrath said:

Quite the contrary, your wrong. I often play in casino card rooms/brick & mortar rooms. There are a few advantages to request mucked cards face up

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Agreed, there's reasons for doing it. We're just saying that it's usually frowned upon and considered poor form. So often you've gotta weigh up the "benefits" you've listed with the negatives, like "Chances are everyone at the table is gonna hate me".

Though Mase has it right - it's a bigger deal when you've shown your hand, your opponent has seen it and mucked, and then you ask to see their losing hand.

Actually, there's a way around this one if you're the other player in the Devilfish hand. Just don't turn your cards over. He made the last bet and TDA rules say he has to show down first - the dealer should make him show down without you having to ask.

OzExorcist said:

Actually, there's a way around this one if you're the other player in the Devilfish hand. Just don't turn your cards over. He made the last bet and TDA rules say he has to show down first - the dealer should make him show down without you having to ask.

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That is a very good point.

although he has to the right to see them, pretty not cool imo

what i usually do if i make the hand-ending call is wait until the guy flips his cards. if he doesn't, then i don't either

nevadanick said:

'Bad etiquette' doesn't make it against the rules.



I don't believe it was an active player in the hand that asked for the show.

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Dave 'Devilfish' Ulliott check-raised a 1,000 bet to 3,750 against the button

But the button requested to see the cards

Yep.. same person.

Mortis said:

Dave 'Devilfish' Ulliott check-raised a 1,000 bet to 3,750 against the button

But the button requested to see the cards

Yep.. same person.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and it didn't hold up to the buttons QJ

I wanna do that to Phil and go "QUEEN TEN???"

OzExorcist said:

Though Mase has it right - it's a bigger deal when you've shown your hand, your opponent has seen it and mucked, and then you ask to see their losing hand.

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Some jack ass did this to me recently...I had raised pre-flop, continuation bet the flop, checked around on the turn, and he bet into me on the river, I called, saw I was beat and mucked...he then asked to see my hand...I then reached over before the dealer could get to the cards and splashed them around in the rest of the much...the floor was called over and I was allowed to stay with just a warning, the only reason I probably was not asked to leave is because I am a regular there and the other player was not...if I was just another ordinary Joe I'd probably have been at least escorted out for the night if not permanently.

I don't see why it's so bad. It's part of rules. Am I missing something here?

gkh said:

I don't see why it's so bad. It's part of rules. Am I missing something here?

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Yes... the fact that it's bad etiquette.

It's not like slowrolling, because it helps the player who does it.

Bottom line: If it would win me the WSOP ME, I would do it. If I thought it would get me an extra 150 chips throughout the day, I wouldn't.

Edit: This video makes it OK

YouTube - Chocolate Rain by Dave "Devilfish" Ulliott

I never know what the rule is for when you have to show your cards on the river at a showdown.
Can someone explain what the proper rule is.
On pokerstars as anyone who plays there knows the first person to act after the button has to show first and then it goes round the table in order and anyone who is beaten can muck their cards or choose to show them.
At one casino I play they insist that everyone in the hand at showdown on theriver ALWAYS shows their hand and u can never muck it.
At another casino I play at it is the opposite and they always let you muck your cards on the river showdown if you wish regardless of position, and there is no rule enforced as to who shows first so it is best to wait ti;l the other guy shows so you have option to muck
So 3 different places I play all have different rules for it tho I'd guess Pokerstars is more likely to play the proper rules.

Xavier said:

So 3 different places I play all have different rules for it tho I'd guess Pokerstars is more likely to play the proper rules.

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There are no "official rules" to poker. As you basically put it, they are all "house rules".

But I would go with what has been stated above. The last person to make a bet/raise should be the first to roll their cards over, since they were the last aggressor. If they win, the rest can muck. If there are more than 2 people in a hand, I would maybe go with the next in line clockwise, just as the game would play.

edit: the closes you will find to "official" rules would be Robert's Rules of Poker...

http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm

I play at commerce casino in LA couple times a week and i see it all the time. Mostly from asian players and other players not from the U.S. It is known to be bad ettic but some players have no idea what table manners are. The rule at commerce is once the hand hits the muck it is not allowed to be turned over. If u call a bet on the river and ur in position, u have to turn over ur cards to win the hand unless the player out of postion mucks his hand, however ur hand is still live and a player can ask what u have and u have to turn it over. In that situation once the players cards hit the muck and the hand is over I allways toss my cards as fast as i can and hope no one asks. You never want anyone to see ur hole cards for free.

If it goes to a SHOWDOWN then the cards have to be shown and it is not just the players in the hand that can request.

This does a few things,

1. If I have called a bet on the river, I have the right to see the cards. I will always ask.

2. It stops people from cheating through chip sharing. Local tourneys are full of mates playing against each other. He could have the best hand and muck it to help his mate out. (doesn't happen often but it happens)

3. If you have a player like the Fish playing, he should really love showing crap cards, as next time he bets he will defiantly get called.. From that point on he would tighten up. I am happy to show rubbish if required! Its GREAT.

4. With regard to the rules. Hold Em is played with the cards not with the hand declared. In some form of poker you call your hand and that stands (I think) bit in Hold Em it is the hands shown.

Hahaha, whenever I play friendly home games there's always this one guy who immediately says "What'cha got?" after the river bets no matter if he bet first or not (and he usually does), and the idiots playing usually fall for it and show their cards first. They're just now starting to think and question him after months of playing with him. He's mucked out of turn so many times that I'd be rich if I had a dime per time . . .