Angle Shooting?

Since I play most of my games online, I was not really aware that angle shooting was even going on. But I've recently read a couple of articles and videos about the issue. At first blush, it seems quite unethical to me. But it wasn't that long ago that check raising was thought to be of bad form and was frowned upon. Now it is accepted and expected. So, I was wondering what people think of angle shooting? Do you think it is just another tool to be used in poker, or is it an unethical practice that should be punished, or some other opinion? What do you think?

This is one of the articles that I read (thought the video at the bottom was interesting).
http://www.nj.com/onlinegamblingnj/index.ssf/2014/04/watch_out_for_these_6_tricks_u.html

Sorry, but I think the translation is bad and I can not understand the question.

Well, I'm glad I now know about this! I've never played live, I'm a bit nervous to try to be honest, I suppose because I don't know all these little tricks. I don't think this is meant to be a part of the game and is probably mostly taking advantage of dealers who aren't making players follow strict protocol. If I play, I plan on only trusting information I get from the dealer, and running everything through them.

Angle shooting is totally wrong and anyone doing it should be called out on it.

Def read a few articles on it or watch some YouTube videos before playing live to spot it if it happens to you.

It would be interesting to see what happens when someone does that back at them. There would probably be some kind of nuclear meltdown.

Angle shooting is definitely bad poker etiquette. People that angle shoot are usually the player no one at the table likes.

Angle shooting is an unethical practice that should be punished, for sure.

The best way to protect yourself against it is to make sure you know all the rules, and don't do things like leaving your hand unprotected or mucking it before you've been awarded a pot. Always check with the dealer or the floor if you're in doubt about something.

Angle shooting is not acute thing to do.

I didn't know about this, just finished watching the video. I cant believe this guy did it just to get a few more chips wow that's what a bad player is has no respect for him or others or the game to do this bait and switch on tv. Someone did something similar to me live, almost the same maneuver on me and they let him slide.

It may be unethical. It might really frustrate and annoy you. It might even push you to overreach on a given pot, but if its within the rules...oh well.
My usual casino has some good rules regarding this issue, like bets must be clearly displayed and/or announced (no hiding a large denomination chip under the others).
As usual in life though, caveat emptor.
Pay attention and don't be afraid to politely question anything through the dealer or a floor person. You'll get an official ruling and the angle-shooter will gain extra scrutiny and may end up getting banished.

Wow, good to know. The fake raise out of turn doesn't really bother me. It is a little dirty, but pretty much a bluff. The hiding of the chips and claiming to be in the pot when not and vice versa are worse in my opinion.

Delenia said:

Since I play most of my games online, I was not really aware that angle shooting was even going on. But I've recently read a couple of articles and videos about the issue. At first blush, it seems quite unethical to me. But it wasn't that long ago that check raising was thought to be of bad form and was frowned upon. Now it is accepted and expected. So, I was wondering what people think of angle shooting? Do you think it is just another tool to be used in poker, or is it an unethical practice that should be punished, or some other opinion? What do you think?

Click to expand...

IMO, angle shooting isn't any different than ordinary bluffing, IF the angle shooting is simply trying to trick your opponent into thinking you have a weak hand or vice versa.

Now you get some types, for example, of someone trying to call a bet, but not putting all chips in, therefore saying they hadn't completed the bet if they find out they lost, but rules are in place to prevent stunts like that.

But ones like making a raise, then saying, "oh no, I just call" knowing the floor will make the raise stand....if the other player is foolish enough to fall for it, they deserve to get angle shot.

Angle shooting not different than bluffing.

Delenia said:

Since I play most of my games online, I was not really aware that angle shooting was even going on. But I've recently read a couple of articles and videos about the issue. At first blush, it seems quite unethical to me. But it wasn't that long ago that check raising was thought to be of bad form and was frowned upon. Now it is accepted and expected. So, I was wondering what people think of angle shooting? Do you think it is just another tool to be used in poker, or is it an unethical practice that should be punished, or some other opinion? What do you think?

Click to expand...

IMO, angle shooting isn't any different than ordinary bluffing, IF the angle shooting is simply trying to trick your opponent into thinking you have a weak hand or vice versa.

Now you get some types, for example, of someone trying to call a bet, but not putting all chips in, therefore saying they hadn't completed the bet if they find out they lost, but rules are in place to prevent stunts like that.

But ones like making a raise, then saying, "oh no, I just call" knowing the floor will make the raise stand....if the other player is foolish enough to fall for it, they deserve to get angle shot.

One of the worst I have ever seen.

I think it's why things like moving your chips forward or even the gesture of an all in with your hands is now considered a call. To stop people angle shooting for a visual tell on what your opponant is going to do. Most consider it bad poker etiquette but if it's within the rules it's surely just gamesmanship to gain that thin edge. I dont play live though so im not really clued up on it.

As already mentioned, the dealers are generally pretty good at keeping folks honest regarding forward motion rules, announced bets, chip stacking/hiding, etc. The more subtle body language feigns or fakes of a random nature are harder to deal with, I suppose. I'm not a fan of such behavior. Still, it's a little like a boxing match where the referee instructs both participants to 'protect yourself at all times'. Ultimately, it's your responsibility to make sure you don't get clocked in the ring, or at the table.

Angle shooting is definitely form of bad etiquette and as we can't stop other players to do it the only solution is to be very careful while playing. Unfortunately when money are involved there will always be people who will use everything at their disposal to win.

I certainly can't argue with anything on that list in the article as being unethical. Deception is part of poker but the tactics listed are outside the strategies of the game.

muse713 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-tI041TLI8

One of the worst I have ever seen.

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Wow!! The fact that he had done it previously just makes me want to punch him. The guys on the floor should have booted him. That was nasty.

muse713 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-tI041TLI8

One of the worst I have ever seen.

Click to expand...

Sure, a crappy trick, but so is regular bluffing.

And in any case, this should have been a red flag for the other player. I'd have folded and said, "thanks for the extra info"

Angle shooting should be forbidden. Thats my opinion. Its just a fool trick.

I wish angle shooting was full out aloud in the casinos and online. Just like in home games. Makes it a way more interesting game

SubZero111 said:

I wish angle shooting was full out aloud in the casinos and online. Just like in home games. Makes it a way more interesting game

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i play a lot of live poker and i havent seen this used much. However it is very bad sportsmanship. Yes it is within the rules and can be done but if you cant play your game ethically you should stick to home games. It is nothing more than a DOUCHEBAG move. If it gets out of control the TDA rules will be changed to address it. IMHO

I play in a local casino.
If you would do something like this, all the players would react angry.
And the next time you go to the casino, they will remember it and act cool around you.

I know this is old, but had something to add.

I was playing live in St. Louis, someone raised me. I sat and thought for a minute. I took the amount of chips I was raised and set them off to the side. I do this to gauge what it will cost me and visually see this and what the cost is relative to my chipstack.

But this time I knew I was going to call because I had flopped trip aces with a rainbow board.

As I was sitting there thinking, the player that raised said I motioned to call. He said since I pulled the chips to the side that was an indication I called. Nope, sorry buddy...BUT since he was playing that up, I used it and acted like I haven't made up my mind yet and feigned getting angry that he was attempting to force me to call.

So, I called, 4th didn't help him, but he went all in, I called. When he saw I flopped trip aces he was like, "SEE!! he angle shot me!!!"

I had to tell him to learn what angle shooting is and learn that if I don't verbally indicate a call or raise, no motion with my hands forward or no forward motion with my chips, its not a decision.

Could hear him cussing all the way out of the poker room.:thefinger