Angle Shoot (?) In Foxwoods Tournament

So I was playing in a $160 tournament at Foxwoods last week when this hand went down between two other players. At the time I thought it was a little out of line and I did in fact call the player out on it. The other players at the table as well as the dealer seemed to agree. Here's how it went down as best as I recall.

A player (Loud, obnoxious, 30 somethin' bearded white guy who felt the need to comment on every hand played whether he was involved or not) raises in early position and gets called by 2 players in late position. Both blinds fold.

The flop comes Axx with 2 hearts. Beardy bets, 1 fold and button (young guy, headphones) calls.

Turn is a blank and Beardy bets again. Young Guy calls.

The river is a heart and brings in the flush draw. Beardy thinks for a while then checks. Young Guy bets pot and Beardy again thinks for a long while playing with his chips and finally says. "OK, lets see the flush". Young guy exposes his nut flush and everyone at the table waits for Beardy to settle up. Instead he just mucks his cards and says. "I never called, I just asked him to show his flush."

To his credit, Young Guy doesn't blow his top and just rakes in the pot. I wasn't as kind and based on his previous behavior called him out on it as a deliberate angle shoot. The dealer agreed and Beardy said that it wasn't intentional and that we were free to call the floor. The young guy that won the pot didn't want to make a big deal of it so that was the end of it.

The reason I'd like to hear some other opinions on this is that in retrospect I'm not sure what he did was all that bad. For sure, the villain did lead the other player into exposing his cards, but he never pushed any chips forward and he never said call. In baseball the 3rd baseman will often fake throwing the ball to the pitcher to draw his opponent off the bag. In football an offensive line will use a fake cadence to draw the defense off-sides. Deception plays a roll in almost every other competitive event and is widely regarded as simple gamesmanship. Even in poker it's acceptable to under or over represent your hand. Why aren't we congratulating the villain for a heads up play? Instead it's an "Angle Shoot" and considered poor sportsmanship. Why is that? It all seems so arbitrary. Shouldn't we all be responsible for our own protection?

No way I let that go, I'd have the floor rule even not being involved this time. Absolutely intentional, and I'm sure he'll try that crap again too, or different angle shoots. I'd have the floor over more to be like, hey d-bag cut that out, we know you're being a problem. I think floor likely would rule he didn't call. That really irks me.

I think bad on the other player for exposing his hand, but that's super shady.

Four Dogs said:

The reason I'd like to hear some other opinions on this is that in retrospect I'm not sure what he did was all that bad.

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It wasn't, and it looks like someone learned something from that movie, The Cincinnati Kid. Eric (the Kid) says something very much like that to Howard (the Man) Lancey. Then Lancey shows his queen high straight flush, and tells the Kid he owes him $5,000. I saw right off that, no actually he doesn't because the Kid never called! He never said "I call", he never made a move to put the call money in the pot. The Kid could have said "I fold". Just one of many problems with that movie.

When you say something like, "OK, let's see it" or "Show me a flush", that's just table talk. If someone tried something like that, I'd make very certain that they were actually calling before showing them.

We had a similar problem crop up at the local card room. One player was sitting with a wife or girlfriend. His opponent shipped it on the river. As the SO was leaving, he said something like I'll call you tomorrow. Since the AI had the nuts, he demanded that the other player pay him. The floor manager had to be called in and decided to let it slide this time, but gave a stern warning about using that word while actively in a hand, and that if it ever happened again, he wouldn't be so understanding.

I think it was dirty and an angle but I would have not wanted the floor called if I had been the young guy because by rule he could have himself faced a warning or penalty for exposing his cards while action was pending. According to your description bearded fellow had not called or folded at the time the young guy exposed his cards and therefore his action was still pending.

TDA rule 63: Exposing Cards and Proper Folding
A player who exposes his cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand.
The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. When folding, cards should be pushed forward low to the
table, not deliberately exposed or tossed high (“helicoptered”). See also Rule 61.

I doubt the floor because of the angle would have enforced a penalty on the young guy but he could easily do so. I think the dealer should have immediately called the floor to sort this out but again if I am in the young guy's seat I would have done what he did just rake the pot and know that the bearded guy is capable of some dirty angles and beware. I would also pay close attention to the dealer I think it was a mistake not to call the floor and would watch for other mistakes he or she may inadvertently make in the future. ( I am naturally pretty paranoid when it comes to pot counting from dealers and other technical things they do in tournaments).

Personally I thought it was underhanded and would never try to pull a stunt like this but that's based solely on what I have learned to be proper poker etiquette, don't angle shoot, don't slow roll, don't ask to see someones cards etc. But don't some of these rules seem to be a bit arbitrary? There's a part of me that thinks the game might be more interesting and add another dimension to poker if this kind of angle shoot was just considered "part of the game". It would certainly confer some advantages to the more crafty players. At the same time it might scare away many weaker or less aggressive players. Perhaps that's the point of some of these unwritten rules.

Sure it was an angle shoot, but thanks for posting.. I will be looking out for players that try this kind of thing.

Two things: 1. Yes it was an angle shoot. Douche-bag behavior at its finest. 2. Don't wear headphones at the table. You are responsible for keeping up with what is going on around you. It is impossible to do that if you are listening to music. I have been in several tourneys with people wearing headphones, and they are constantly asking questions because they can't hear. How much was the raise? Did he call? Is it on me? Take off the damn headphones and pay attention! The second dude should have done/said nothing. The reason he didn't push it may have been because he realized the error was, in actuality, on him and not the douche bag.

The player should of been aware and know a call is only when chips are put in a forward motion or a direct call.. People angle shoot a lot but until the dealer states to turn them over or show is when I show

May or may not have been a deliberate angle shoot. Only the villain knows. I'm sure we would also have a better sense of what happened if we were all actually there. I'm a former dealer myself and unless you state "I call" or forward motion/cross the plane to put the chips in the pot, then it's not a call.