Am I a cheater?

PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

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Hey guys. I just came back from casino tonight. I won $123 today but I had an unfair advantage because there were two Korean old idiots who were talking about their hole cards in Korean.

I admit that I played my Aces very horribly. But this is what happened.

I was in MP + 2 with AA with $110 stack

UTG($100) raises to $5
UTG+1, MP1 folded
I reraised it to $15
MP+3(Korean old man, aka pos) folded
Cutoff (another Korean man, aka pos) folded
Button, sb, bb folded.

Flop came out K T T rainbow

UTG checked. I made a c-bet of $20. UTG check-raised to $50. MP3 and Cutoff were discussing their hole cards in Korean saying "aah sh**. I folded a Ten. F--k. I wish I was in the hand. I would've won so much money from this"

While I was worried about the possibility that my villain could have a ten since he could've raised pre-flop with TJs+ and call my reraise since reraise was small, using this information, I just immediately discounted that my villain can have a Ten and that it's VERY unlikely that my villain can be holding the last ten. I played the pre-flop horribly since I should've reraised it lot higher. I decided to shove all-in. Villain calls with KQs. I won the pot.

I kept my mouth shut, quietly collected the chips. Villain said "nice hand" and left. I just said "thanks". I didn't dare say any word today and was scared that I might get caught and be falsely accused of colluding with people I don't even know.

I really think it's not fair. While the dealer and the casino didn't enforce it since those two weren't involved in a hand and they were just talking to each other, I was able to eavesdrop and listen to their whole conversation. This is really an unfair advantage but at the same time, I can't even say anything. I think "English only" should apply at ALL times, whether you're involved in a hand or not, even when you're talking with someone not in the table. I believe they were talking in Korean because they assumed I'm not Korean and that they were the only Koreans in that table.

I left shortly after the villain I won money off of left. This wouldn't be ratholing, right? Because after all, the villain I won money off of left. I just left because I didn't feel comfortable sitting next to two lousy Korean pos while being afraid that I might be accused of colluding with them in Korean language.

It's been quite a while since I've been to casino because I've been going to lot of home games recently and since there were no home games today and I was bored during thanksgiving after the dinner, I decided to go.
 
vinylspiros

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Nope, your not a cheater.

You heard something and used it to your advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

You got lucky. It's the way you played the hand that i don't really like.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

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Nope, your not a cheater.

You heard something and used it to your advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

You got lucky. It's the way you played the hand that i don't really like.

Yeah, I do admit, I played my Aces really horribly and it was a scary board. I was lucky I had two idiots speaking about their hole cards. My reraise was small because the table was so tight, I thought making a bigger reraise will get everyone to fold and hence, killing off the action. But at the same time, reraise was too horrible that it gave people way good implied odds to destroy me post-flop and crack my Aces.
 
fletchdad

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I see no cheating. No collusion either.

Its up to the casino (isnt it) to enforce language policy. Do you look Korean? Could you have been "outed" as far as understanding their conversation?

It aint your fault if they talk and the casino allows it IMO. So if you thought they were fish, you should have stayed. You could have asked the dealer to request English only.
 
midgetfactory

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Hey you didnt initiate the conversation, at the end of the day you could say they were cheating by talking bout their hole cards. You used it to your advantage, dont feel bad
 
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RickH1983

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You didnt do anything but hear something. I wouldnt worry about it I would have stayed and played longer. You didnt cheat.
 
blakewyte

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I don't think you were cheating either.
You just happened to understand Korean and was in the vicinity when the other two players were discussing their hand. I doubt they knew you understood it (unless you are Korean and they know that you are?).
 
newbie in training

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Just imagine someone saging there wjole cards in english toeveryone that they folded

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2
 
Arjonius

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You certainly did not cheat. The two people who spoke in Korean shouldn't have been discussing the hand while it was in progress - not in any language. I don't see a major difference between this and if they had whispered in English and you had overheard.

That said, it would seem you didn't take the absolute high road either, which would have been to ask them not to talk about hands in progress immediately after the first time they did so.

I'm not clear if this hand was the first time or not. If they had been talking about anything in Korean before and if the casino has an English-only rule, you could have asked them or ask the dealer to ask them to speak in English. That might have created a bit of ill will with them, but likely would have prevented any possibility of your been seen as involved in anything with them.

If this was the first hand where you learned anything, I don't have an issue with using the info to help your decision making. That said, the most ethical thing would have been to tell your opponent immediately what you heard, although frankly, I can't say I'd have gone that far.
 
LongJohn45

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Well, it ain't cheatin' and but it is dishonest. Those things are similar but different. Clearly, you feel bad about it or otherwise you wouldn't be coming to a dump like this and asking a bum like me this question. So, ill tell you straight, you were dishonest son. The right thing to do would have been to say you understood their tongue and they should be more careful in the future.

When your playing with money on a poker table, I think we want everyone to be honest. There's nothing more than we hate is cheaters. You didn't necessarily cheat, but it was close. -Good huntin'
 
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suitedslick

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i dont think it's counted as cheating , you just got lucky lol
 
etherghost

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It's not cheating at all. Those two should have been disciplined. You got free info due to casino policy being crappy. In my opinion you would have played the hand exactly the same regardless of the information anyway.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks you played your AA rather good?

Cheers! :D
 
Danilo

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Hmmm what is even the poker room you play? :D
 
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awmm1983

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Well, it ain't cheatin' and but it is dishonest. Those things are similar but different. Clearly, you feel bad about it or otherwise you wouldn't be coming to a dump like this and asking a bum like me this question. So, ill tell you straight, you were dishonest son. The right thing to do would have been to say you understood their tongue and they should be more careful in the future.

When your playing with money on a poker table, I think we want everyone to be honest. There's nothing more than we hate is cheaters. You didn't necessarily cheat, but it was close. -Good huntin'

At first i was going to point out how dishonest a game poker is , however, i agree he should have spoke up. I know a lot of money and time and effort goes into learning the game et cetera but it is still a game and you shouldn't sell your soul just to win a game. Not that you should sell your soul for something else. :)
This is not a dig at the poster as they clearly feel ashamed of this . Sometimes we let ourself down.
 
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PlayedYou73

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You didn't cheat. You just used the information that was available to your advantage. That isn't cheating.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

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I don't think you were cheating either.
You just happened to understand Korean and was in the vicinity when the other two players were discussing their hand. I doubt they knew you understood it (unless you are Korean and they know that you are?).

Nope. They had no idea I was Korean-American. Because after all, it's the stereotype. All asians look alike. :D They probably thought I was Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc. Either way, I kept my mouth shut(quite surprising since I've been acting like an asshole and a jackass in live games past few times and decided to stop it) and quietly play the game, especially when it was Thanksgiving and last thing I wanna do is ruin someone's Thanksgiving Day by tilting them off.
 
rifflemao

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Life Lessons from Worm, lol (Rounders):

"Hey, guys. English only at the table, no Russian.

- What are you talking about?

What am I talking about? If you want to see this seventh card, you're gonna stop speaking ****in' Sputnik.

- Oh, da, mother****er. - You're worried we might work together.

I'm sure you're just talking about perogies and snow and shit, but let's cut it out, all right?"


Different situation of course, and just a movie. I don't fault the OP though. Good instinct to question yourself afterward, but it wasn't a life-changing sum.

Also, wouldn't the villain just check-call in that spot if he has the fourth T?
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

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At first i was going to point out how dishonest a game poker is , however, i agree he should have spoke up. I know a lot of money and time and effort goes into learning the game et cetera but it is still a game and you shouldn't sell your soul just to win a game. Not that you should sell your soul for something else. :)
This is not a dig at the poster as they clearly feel ashamed of this . Sometimes we let ourself down.

I guess I was afraid to speak up because I was afraid I might get falsely accused of colluding. Even though I won the hand legitimately where my range of possibly being ahead of still quite high because villain can also be overplaying his top pair as he did, I was afraid I would have to give up my winnings just over two morons speaking their hole cards regardless of my pocket Aces.

One thing that really made me crack up inside my mind was, when I was listening to their conversation after flop has come out, the guy regretted not calling my reraise of $15 with T6s. He was telling his friend "aah s***. I had a ten. I had T6 same suit. I should've called. It was suited too. I had a feeling I would get something great. I would've won so much money. Look at these guys betting out hard. blah blah blah" While the other guy says "if you feel it, you gotta get in. you just gotta feel it with the deck. Gotta play with the spirit(ki) and feel it with your heart." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA wtf?

I never heard such result-oriented statements. Maybe this is why no Koreans from Korea have ever won any type of wsop, wpt, etc events. They should just stick to Hanafuda cards and play Go Stop. I'm not talking about Koreans from the US. Chino Rheem and Joseph Cheong are good players that I like.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

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Life Lessons from Worm, lol (Rounders):

"Hey, guys. English only at the table, no Russian.

- What are you talking about?

What am I talking about? If you want to see this seventh card, you're gonna stop speaking ****in' Sputnik.

- Oh, da, mother****er. - You're worried we might work together.

I'm sure you're just talking about perogies and snow and shit, but let's cut it out, all right?"


Different situation of course, and just a movie. I don't fault the OP though. Good instinct to question yourself afterward, but it wasn't a life-changing sum.

Also, wouldn't the villain just check-call in that spot if he has the fourth T?

I think that was the only reason why I decided to take my chances because I figured he would slow-play it instead of check-raising. I know this is flawed because there are people who do play strong with their strong hands. I've even got stacked many times in the past as well.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Wp mate

If they are not bright enough to realise somebody might be able to understand the lingo, then tough.

In fact, since they were discussing hands unfairly I feel its your duty to punish them. If anybody was cheating, it was them.
 
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Pokertron3000

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Hey guys. I just came back from casino tonight. I won $123 today but I had an unfair advantage because there were two Korean old idiots who were talking about their hole cards in Korean.

I admit that I played my Aces very horribly. But this is what happened.

I was in MP + 2 with AA with $110 stack

UTG($100) raises to $5
UTG+1, MP1 folded
I reraised it to $15
MP+3(Korean old man, aka pos) folded
Cutoff (another Korean man, aka pos) folded
Button, sb, bb folded.

Flop came out K T T rainbow

UTG checked. I made a c-bet of $20. UTG check-raised to $50. MP3 and Cutoff were discussing their hole cards in Korean saying "aah sh**. I folded a Ten. F--k. I wish I was in the hand. I would've won so much money from this"

While I was worried about the possibility that my villain could have a ten since he could've raised pre-flop with TJs+ and call my reraise since reraise was small, using this information, I just immediately discounted that my villain can have a Ten and that it's VERY unlikely that my villain can be holding the last ten. I played the pre-flop horribly since I should've reraised it lot higher. I decided to shove all-in. Villain calls with KQs. I won the pot.

I kept my mouth shut, quietly collected the chips. Villain said "nice hand" and left. I just said "thanks". I didn't dare say any word today and was scared that I might get caught and be falsely accused of colluding with people I don't even know.

I really think it's not fair. While the dealer and the casino didn't enforce it since those two weren't involved in a hand and they were just talking to each other, I was able to eavesdrop and listen to their whole conversation. This is really an unfair advantage but at the same time, I can't even say anything. I think "English only" should apply at ALL times, whether you're involved in a hand or not, even when you're talking with someone not in the table. I believe they were talking in Korean because they assumed I'm not Korean and that they were the only Koreans in that table.

I left shortly after the villain I won money off of left. This wouldn't be ratholing, right? Because after all, the villain I won money off of left. I just left because I didn't feel comfortable sitting next to two lousy Korean pos while being afraid that I might be accused of colluding with them in Korean language.

It's been quite a while since I've been to casino because I've been going to lot of home games recently and since there were no home games today and I was bored during thanksgiving after the dinner, I decided to go.

heads upfor rolls
 
etherghost

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Life Lessons from Worm, lol (Rounders):

"Hey, guys. English only at the table, no Russian.

- What are you talking about?

What am I talking about? If you want to see this seventh card, you're gonna stop speaking ****in' Sputnik.

- Oh, da, mother****er. - You're worried we might work together.

I'm sure you're just talking about perogies and snow and shit, but let's cut it out, all right?"


Different situation of course, and just a movie. I don't fault the OP though. Good instinct to question yourself afterward, but it wasn't a life-changing sum.

Also, wouldn't the villain just check-call in that spot if he has the fourth T?


LOL! Perfect timing!

As for the last comment, spot on! :)
 
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luckyhearts

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Let it go, don't beat yourself up. The only reason you feel bad is because the villain wasn't the idiot telling his hand. If someone flashes their cards, maybe you could not look(right), but how do you not listen to people talking?? How different would you have felt if the villain had the case 10? You shoved knowing there was only one left, maybe you would have slowed down if the idiots had shut up-then you would have suffered for it and been rightfully mad...chit happens.
 
The1AceJack

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Took advantage of the information around you. Dealer/PB's fault for not enforcing the rules. You caught a lucky break, in a way; at least, a type of luck that you could qualify for, whereas an American-mutt (such as myself) couldn't.

Also, if I were at that table, I'd have said something about the small talk, so it's your villian's own fault for not thinking twice about that, either.
 
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fordman427

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By no means are you a cheater! Those guys should have enough sense they say could effect the hand. It's not your fault they have no respect for others in the hand
 
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