Advice on live cash games

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gkw123

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Hi,
New here to the forum.
I've been playing poker for about 3 years now and have have made decent money playing micro stakes online.
I've made about $4000 from tournaments and about $1000 from cash games.
After black friday though I haven't been able to play much poker and want to start again but don't want to do it online.
I'm thinking about going to the local casino and start playing the 2-3 spread nlh games on weekends.

I've only played a few times live and have been break even.

I play a solid TAG game and sometimes pick my spots to play a little loose.

I'd like to some advice from any profitable live players around here about playing live poker.

How are the quality of players at these games?
How much bankroll management should I use? Is it okay to be a little risky and use about 15 Buy ins? I have a high paying full time job so money isn't an issue for me.

And most importantly, how can I improve my game playing live? The games are so slow and I can only put in a few hands a day compared to online poker. I feel it might take really long to improve. I also can't track my hands so won't know where I may have small leaks in my game.

Any advice from successfull live players is welcome.

Thanks
 
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Hulktron

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where you playing at? and are they short stack games or 100bb buyin?
 
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gkw123

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I'm playing at the Talking Stick casino in Phoenix, AZ.
Yes they are 100bb buyins.
I think I posted this in the wrong section.
This should probably be in the cash games section.
 
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dan abnormal

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IM not a profitable live player YET, but put the time in. If youre pretty good online in cash I think youre gonna be shocked how good you are at cash live. THEM FOLKS LIKE TO GAMBOL and it scares me back into MTTS LOL
 
OzExorcist

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Live players are generally awful. It's been said lots of times before but in my experience it still rings true - expect the standard of play in a $1/$2 or $2/$3 live game to be about the same as (if not worse than) a $5NL game online.

There's nothing wrong with playing a standard TAG game, it should make you money in the long run because the majority of players you come up against won't ever work out what you're doing or adjust to you.

That said, be prepared to go off the script in the right situation. Most live players are bad because they hate to fold, but there are also some who are bad because they're too scared to call - they live in permanent fear of straight and flush draws hitting. Make sure you punish these players too when you recognise them.

Definitely do a bit of reading about tells. They're not the be-all and end-all gold mine of information that some people would have you think they are, but at the same time they're certainly useful to know about. For example, I played a four-hour session over the weekend and I think there were maybe two hands where tells were a factor. Both times they made or saved me money though - one in a hand where the player was obviously weak and I was able to push him out with nothing, and another where a player was very strong and I was able to get away from a marginal hand without losing any more.

IMO Joe Navarro's Read 'em and Reap is easily the best book on the topic (skip Mike Caro's book of tells, as two thirds of it is stuff that only applies to stud poker home games :p)

As far as bankroll management goes, the same rules as online apply because you're just as exposed to swings. That said, if you've got a well-paying day job that you can use to top up your bankroll then it's not like you have to have a full 30-50 buyins just sitting in a drawer somewhere.

You can improve your game in a lot of the same ways you could when you were playing online, you just don't have the luxury of having a full hand history waiting for you at the end of the session. Things like participating in hand analysis discussions and posting questions about any difficult spots you find yourself in will still serve you very well though. And there's a bit less of a burden, because you don't need to be as good to beat the live games in the first place :p

Oh - one last thought. It really can pay to be friendly at the tables. Recreational players will represent far and away your biggest paydays, and they're only at the table because they want to have a good time. If they're having a few drinks and some laughs, they probably won't even care that they're losing money. If people are berrating them or making them feel uncomfortable, however, they'll usually just pick up their money and leave. So do your best to make them feel comfortable.
 
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pokerjack43

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Playing live is a special thing, its you vs them, not hiding behind software and avatars.
You get to see them think through each decision, cry when they lose etc.

My best advice would be to be casual about it, dont turn up in shades and cap and try to act like a rounder. The regulars will spot you a mile off. But do be wary about your actions, body language etc. Its easy to fall into online habits and telegraph every fold, curse your luck at every lost hand. So pay attention to how you act at the table.

Its unlikely to spot 'tells', well accurate and reliable ones, so rely on your online skills here to track betting patterns and hand ranges etc. you wont have software to aid this so pay attention to as much as you can.

and most importantly...you must get dressed. you cant play live poker in your underwear, eating doritos by the fistfull and guzzling red bull, like you can in online poker.

and enjoy it, live poker is a lot more social and relaxed than the solo online grind, so meet some nice people and enjoy your evening.
 
JusSumguy

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The mindset of the average on line player when starting a session is --> "Okay, I'm going to win today."

The mindset of the average casino player when starting a session is --> "Okay, I'm not going to loose more than 50 bucks tonight."

Sad, but true? No... mix that attitude with a constant supply of booze. I love live play.

-
 
BelgoSuisse

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Oh - one last thought. It really can pay to be friendly at the tables. Recreational players will represent far and away your biggest paydays, and they're only at the table because they want to have a good time. If they're having a few drinks and some laughs, they probably won't even care that they're losing money. If people are berrating them or making them feel uncomfortable, however, they'll usually just pick up their money and leave. So do your best to make them feel comfortable.

This.

Recreational players are there to get a good time. Your job as a winning player is to help them have a good time. That's what justifies the money you bring back home.
 
Timmah120

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I've noticed that I do much better live than online because I can see my opponents. Also, the slower play gives me more time to observe...when I'm not in a hand (which happens alot) I observe how my opponents are playing their hands and try to assign ranges. I watch their faces, when they check their cards, how they handle their chips, what they are talking about, who knows each other, who doesn't, etc. The list goes on forever.

You need to be patient playing live. In my experience, this is very important. I favor limit hold'em for cash games over NL, but that's your choice.

Good luck :)
 
BelgoSuisse

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I've noticed that I do much better live than online because I can see my opponents.

No, you're doing better live than online because in live games, your opponents suck even more than you do, while online your opponents are actually good unless you play super micro stakes.
 
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Caesura

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And be prepared for really boring conversation
 
thebigdawg

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No, you're doing better live than online because in live games, your opponents suck even more than you do, while online your opponents are actually good unless you play super micro stakes.

Little rude, but yeah your typical $.50/$1 player online is better than your typical $.50/$1 player live.
 
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dan abnormal

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Someone aboved mention being able to get better reads live. I agree with this as its about the only thing you can focus on. To me this is one great benefit of playing live, that it forces me to watch what everyone is doing whereas if Im playing online, I tend to be staring into space or doing other things that I shouldnt be doing.

To My amazement some folks I have played live MTTs with brign thier IPADs and actually watch movies during a game, One dude beside was reading a book, I remember I got frazzeled in a game, and when break came, I was telling this dude I know about the hand that frazzeled me, and Idint realize the guy reading the book on his ipad was outside, and I looked at him and I said and how do you read a book while yourplaying "AHHH makes the time go faster"
 
Timmah120

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No, you're doing better live than online because in live games, your opponents suck even more than you do, while online your opponents are actually good unless you play super micro stakes.

There are many things wrong with a statement like this.
1. You don't know me.
2. You've never played cards with me.
3. You think you have a good estimate of how I play based soley on my opinion.

Poker Mindset #5: Leave your ego at the door.

You are welcome at my table anytime, sir.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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There are many things wrong with a statement like this.
1. You don't know me.
2. You've never played cards with me.
3. You think you have a good estimate of how I play based soley on my opinion.

Poker Mindset #5: Leave your ego at the door.

You are welcome at my table anytime, sir.

You think your edge in live games comes from reads instead of coming from much easier opponents. That's enough info to label you as someone who does not know much about this game. Sorry if that's rude, but its the truth.
 
Timmah120

Timmah120

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You misunderstand me....part of my edge comes from reading my opponents. You can't possibly deny that.

I understand plenty about this game. I am still learning Stud, however. And some Omaha. Stop making assumptions.
 
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gkw123

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Thanks for all the responses.
I've been playing online a bit for a couple of weeks just to get back in touch since it's been a while since I last played. I'll start going to the casino in a few weeks and playing part time. My goal would be to add about 10k-20k annually to my bank roll.
 
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