Adjustments to playing live?

HK_47

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I've played poker for quite a while online, am reasonably confident in my tournament game and have played around with the idea of going to a few of my local tournaments. I've only played live 3 times and while it was fun I definitely felt out of my comfort zone which is fine but I also noticed there is a different mindset in some people, like a guy calling an all in just to see what someone had and people just throwing all their money in preflop with 78s because he had a good feeling.

I don't have a lot of money and most of the minimum buy-ins are like $50 but I also hear that live is much easier in terms of the field of competition. Realistically I'm itching to try it but I can't really justify it in terms of bankroll management. I think once a month is reasonable given my level of disposable income. Would love to hear your thoughts.
 
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kceow2981

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Yeah that sounds enticing if the competition is significantly weaker at your local live casinos. However I feel like what that will do is introduce quite a bit of variance into your overall results. What I feel like I would do is I'd prove myself to be profitable at reasonable stakes (like get up to 25nl for online cash games) over a long period of time (like 50k to 100k hands) so I can feel confident in myself, and at that point, then I might sit down at the live games with $50, $100, $200 bucks etc. I'd feel more comfortable as well if I had a good job at the time so I could be more flexible with my bankroll.

This is just my thought process as to how I feel like I'd be able to most reliably take advantage of weak live games without screwing up and blowing my bankroll etc. I haven't done any of this yet, but that's what I think I'll do going forward. What do you think?
 
HK_47

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kceow2981 said:
Yeah that sounds enticing if the competition is significantly weaker at your local live casinos. However I feel like what that will do is introduce quite a bit of variance into your overall results. What I feel like I would do is I'd prove myself to be profitable at reasonable stakes (like get up to 25nl for online cash games) over a long period of time (like 50k to 100k hands) so I can feel confident in myself, and at that point, then I might sit down at the live games with $50, $100, $200 bucks etc. I'd feel more comfortable as well if I had a good job at the time so I could be more flexible with my bankroll.


This is just my thought process as to how I feel like I'd be able to most reliably take advantage of weak live games without screwing up and blowing my bankroll etc. I haven't done any of this yet, but that's what I think I'll do going forward. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Not a bad plan, I got my original roll from playing purely cash games. I like your idea to go to cash games in the same manner, it's very odd playing purely micro stakes and having players play moderately logically in comparison to someone who drunkenly wanders into a poker room with barely a concept for the rules and $200.
 
Andrew Popov

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Playing once a month - you are unlikely to get the necessary experience in a reasonable time ... try to reduce the size of bets (if possible) or try to accumulate enough bankroll to play at least twice a week. If after a dozen such days you do not go to plus - then you are doing something wrong. But if you play well online - you should be all right. You probably know both math and ranges. You just need to learn to look at live players and keep your poker face.
 
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neptun1914

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Live play is much different than online. Currently i have practiced live only during home games for around 3$ buyin and even on a table with 5 to 8 people there are very thigh players, aggressive players and even calling stations. Adapting to such mix and the much slower game can take some time. In fact i lost more money live than i won while online it is the opposite.
 
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verybadatpoker

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I've done a fair number of small home game tournaments as well as a small number of tournaments at a single casino. The home games were nice because people got to know how each other played and adapt to that over time. The couple I did at a casino are probably more like what you were asking though -- I actually found them to be somewhat easier than most online tournaments I've done, but that may have been due to the population at that casino, which also seemed easier to win against in cash games. I'd guess that's pretty dependent on the population where you are playing... and the friend that selected that casino told me that it seemed to consistently have weaker players than the other ones in driving range.
 
Aslachiewicz

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I like your thought process here. I would definitely play 1/2NL games live at least once a week and see how you hold up. Just play a good abc style poker and pay attention. You should be able to make a good amount of money this way. If after a few sessions you dont seem to be making progress go back to online for a bit until you can play live again. Live games will always be softer on any given day rather than online.
 
Shrops

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Hello

online poker has it's good and bad points. But, I have learned a lot more about poker playing live. I feel like I have learned to read people and the game from my live poker experiences. Good luck !
 
firstcrack

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Are these tournaments Re-buy / Add-Ons? This would make a difference in my decision. For example, showing up to these with only one buy-in puts you at a marked disadvantage.
 
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verybadatpoker

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How would not having rebuys be a disadvantage -- no one else will have them either. At least the ones I'm used to were no rebuy, but they ran a few of them throughout the evening, so you weren't out of tournament play if you got eliminated early... you might be playing cash games for a while while waiting for the next one to start though, and they wouldn't be as frequent as you could find online.
 
HK_47

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I've found a Cheap stack tournament at a local casino for $25 every Sunday. I've decided that's my first stop in terms of a real effort at live experience. My biggest questions leading up to this are:

What are common tells that I should watch out for in my body language?

What are some of the more unexpected transitional differences you have experienced?

I'm not much of a social person but I'm trying to improve that aspect of my personality. How much table talk is appropriate and how do I deal with people talking to me in a hand?
 
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notahead

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If you can read people well live is much easier and man player fields pretty weak as you see a lot of rec players that are very bad as poker is suppose to be social game
 
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Other people might have different experience, but I don't tend to look for tells or act on ones I think I might notice until I've played with someone for a while. It's pretty fun to think in my head if I see something, but unless I seem to actually be pretty accurate at reading someone I don't think it's a great idea to rely on them -- playing solid poker is more important. Also, some players will try to make fake tells.
 
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neptun1914

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Most important is to play your weak hands the same way as your strong hands so that it is hard you to be read by other players. It is easier said than done of course.
 
OzExorcist

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HK_47 said:
What are common tells that I should watch out for in my body language?

What are some of the more unexpected transitional differences you have experienced?

I'm not much of a social person but I'm trying to improve that aspect of my personality. How much table talk is appropriate and how do I deal with people talking to me in a hand?
Click to expand...

In your own body language... much as I hate to name check the scumbag, Chris Ferguson is one of the best examples of what you can do to cover your tells. You don't even need to do the stupid hat and sunglasses. Just copy that posture whenever you're in a hand: elbows comfortably planted on the rail, hands clasped in front of your mouth, and you'll actually cover up a fair bit of stuff.

As far as transitions go, I'd say the pace of the game can be hard to adjust to, especially in low stakes tournaments. You'll feel like the game is dragging a bit, because each hand takes so much longer to complete. But you'll also get way less hands per hour and hands per level than you would online, so make sure you watch the clock carefully and keep a mental check on your stack size. If you're not careful, it's easy to zone out through a bad run of cards and realise you've gone from a comfortable stack to a short stack just because a little time has passed and the blinds have jumped up.

When it comes to people talking to you at the table, there's really not much you can do about that other than just get more comfortable with experience. One thing to remember though is you're not obliged to talk back to someone, especially during a hand. You might come off as a little anti-social, but there's heaps of players who don't like to get chatty during a hand so it's not like you're the only one or it'd make you stand out or anything.
 
HK_47

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OzExorcist said:
In your own body language... much as I hate to name check the scumbag, Chris Ferguson is one of the best examples of what you can do to cover your tells. You don't even need to do the stupid hat and sunglasses. Just copy that posture whenever you're in a hand: elbows comfortably planted on the rail, hands clasped in front of your mouth, and you'll actually cover up a fair bit of stuff.

As far as transitions go, I'd say the pace of the game can be hard to adjust to, especially in low stakes tournaments. You'll feel like the game is dragging a bit, because each hand takes so much longer to complete. But you'll also get way less hands per hour and hands per level than you would online, so make sure you watch the clock carefully and keep a mental check on your stack size. If you're not careful, it's easy to zone out through a bad run of cards and realise you've gone from a comfortable stack to a short stack just because a little time has passed and the blinds have jumped up.


When it comes to people talking to you at the table, there's really not much you can do about that other than just get more comfortable with experience. One thing to remember though is you're not obliged to talk back to someone, especially during a hand. You might come off as a little anti-social, but there's heaps of players who don't like to get chatty during a hand so it's not like you're the only one or it'd make you stand out or anything.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback!
 
sryulaw

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play live, it is very different from online, you can know poker math well, but the human factor, psychology, knowing how to impose on the table, this has a fundamental role, analyze the opponents, see their reaction to each move this It is important because you create a pattern that they have. It's easy to talk, difficult to apply. but just going and living, table to table, you will evolve in live poker .. good luck.
 
Duraphig

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For me it is trying to control my own body language. I am really fidgety when I play online and for most things I do really. I have a tough time sitting still at times. Legs bouncing, hands moving, eye rolling, etc. I never worried about it when I was playing online but my friends noticed a few things when we played live so I had to learn to control that.
 
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To me it feels like 2 totely different games; playing online gives you the chance to look borde, yarn, be happy, and all the other things you can't do in live poker.

Also live poker is more about reading the other persons, more then keeping there hands-strategy in mind. A verry thight player can bluff you out off you're game if he sees that youre hand is weak; just by looking at you.

If you want to be an poker-live expert try reading some books, ore look at some video about "cold reading" or stuff like that. Mostly you'll find them in the section of magic; psychologie, ... But it will help you.

A few examples: if you're opponent looks for a verry verry breaf moment to the left upper corner of his eyesight, he is making a "thought-move", a move he doesn't took with his feeling, but he is most lickly to bluff you out.

But be carefull; there are people that know this stuff, they use it to read you, but more the use it to mislead you. The verry good once can chance what you read in what they want you to read.

I stick to online; easyer and safer for me.
 
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My suggestion: if your bankroll is a limiting factor and you'll like to get some live experience before risking too much of your bankroll, you might consider finding the nearest tavern/bar poker league, if your area has this.

The poker might not be stellar, but it would provide an opportunity for you to become more comfortable with the elements of live poker - without risking your bankroll.

Once you're more comfortable, then you can risk some of your bankroll at a low stakes cash table or a tournament.
 
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