AA early/ late in tournament

aquadad · Dec 30, 2007

I'm sure that this has come up before but, being new here, I haven't seen it.
Here's the situation: You're late in a tournament and 3 people all in in front of you. You hold AA. What do you do? What would you do if it were the wsop main event and 1 person all in in front of you?

What I'm looking for is not only what you would do, but also why.

riffpoker · Dec 30, 2007

aquadad said:
I'm sure that this has come up before but, being new here, I haven't seen it.
Here's the situation: You're late in a tournament and 3 people all in in front of you. You hold AA. What do you do?

How late? If it were final table I'd fold. Why? Because chances are 2 people are going to the rail and the jump in money would totally overwhelm anything I could gain from winning 1 pot.

WVHillbilly · Dec 30, 2007

What are the stack sizes? Am I the overwhelming big stack / short stack? Will I be eliminated if I lose? Has the bubble already burst? What's the payout structure? Is the money important to me? How do I stack up skill-wise to the remaining players?

Basically what I am saying is that there are times to fold Aces but you really need to look at all the circumstances.

riffpoker · Dec 30, 2007

update: I assumed stack sizes were fairly even in my answer for final table play.

Bentheman87 · Dec 30, 2007

LOL, you have the preflop nuts, you shouldn't even think for a second about folding. Even against a couple good hands, say KK 77 and AJ, you are over 50% to quadruple up. The only time I would fold AA preflop is if I were on the bubble of a satellite where, for example, 1st - 50th qualify and I'm on the bubble.

QQ or KK is different. Ace-x (a very likely hand that at least one of your opponents holds) has a decent chance of pairing its ace to beat you, but with AA you don't have to worry about that.

aquadad · Dec 30, 2007

I didn't put stack sizes in the ? because I wanted the various answers. By late, I did mean that you were already in the money. someone had asked me this before and in both situations I said I would fold except very late (final table), I had all others covered, and losing wouldn't put me as extreme short stack.

pjr54 · Dec 30, 2007

Frankly with three other players allin in front of you this is a crap shoot. It would be very easy to sucked out on. If this would not cipple me then I would certainy make the call.

aquadad · Dec 30, 2007

Bentheman87 said:
LOL, you have the preflop nuts, you shouldn't even think for a second about folding. Even against a couple good hands, say KK 77 and AJ, you are over 50% to quadruple up. The only time I would fold AA preflop is if I were on the bubble of a satellite where, for example, 1st - 50th qualify and I'm on the bubble.

So you're willing to put your tournement life on the line with a pair?

rcmedcop1 · Dec 30, 2007

pjr54 said:
Frankly with three other players allin in front of you this is a crap shoot. It would be very easy to sucked out on. If this would not cipple me then I would certainy make the call.

I agree.. I have sat back and let others fight it out with crappy hands and thin in out

riffpoker · Dec 30, 2007

Bentheman87 said:
LOL, you have the preflop nuts, you shouldn't even think for a second about folding. Even against a couple good hands, say KK 77 and AJ, you are over 50% to quadruple up

ok genius WSOP 2,500 buy in final table 8 left 3 all-ins before you, relatively even stacks to yours you hold AA.

You have around a 75% chance to quadruple up and maybe win the whole thing.

You have a 25% to go home in 8th with $29,000 give or take.

You have close to a 100% chance of guaranteed $78,000 6th place if you fold cause chances are 2 are going to the rail on this hand, and still have a chance to maybe win the whole thing.

I don't know about you but I'm folding them bullets here dude.

Peace

allndave · Dec 30, 2007

$1 buy in in the money 19 left, i got enough chips to carry me to the final table anouther large stack goes all in i called w/ AA he made 2 pr and won idiot had KQ i was sick , so for my own health i say fold. but would i ??hope to find out soon! lol

vagas35 · Dec 30, 2007

aquadad said:
Bentheman87 said:

LOL, you have the preflop nuts, you shouldn't even think for a second about folding. Even against a couple good hands, say KK 77 and AJ, you are over 50% to quadruple up. The only time I would fold AA preflop is if I were on the bubble of a satellite where, for example, 1st - 50th qualify and I'm on the bubble.

So you're willing to put your tournement life on the line with a pair?

Click to expand...

You cant win it if your not in it

aquadad · Jan 1, 2008

but you more than likely going to be in it if you fold. and probably move up 1 or 2 payouts without even playing a hand. How can you argue with that?

Chris_TC · Jan 1, 2008

riffpoker said:
ok genius WSOP 2,500 buy in final table 8 left 3 all-ins before you, relatively even stacks to yours you hold AA.

You have around a 75% chance to quadruple up and maybe win the whole thing.

You have a 25% to go home in 8th with $29,000 give or take.

You have close to a 100% chance of guaranteed $78,000 6th place if you fold cause chances are 2 are going to the rail on this hand, and still have a chance to maybe win the whole thing.

If you quadruple up, you not only quadruple up. You also send three other players home for a guaranteed 5th place and a huge shot at taking down the entire tournament.

I instacall in this spot. As somebody else mentioned, the bubble of a satellite is the only exception I can think of.

switch0723 · Jan 1, 2008

I would fold vs 3 all ins late because i would prefer my chances of playing 6 handed with a decent chip stack than end up leaving it to the gods of whether i stay in tourny or not

quads · Jan 1, 2008

WSOP, final table, certainly 6 maybe 7 digit prize. I know their are some good arguments here about what to do, but, I'm pushing here regardless of what the conditions around me are.
If playing a WSOP tournament where "winner takes all" Then a little more consideration of conditions would go into it. May never see them again for the rest of the game if I fold here. At least I come out with guns a blazing, instead of hoping to catch flops etc. later on.

quads · Jan 1, 2008

Did anyone here ever see a player either pro, or novice, at a WSOP final table fold AA preflop???

snrcreech · Jan 1, 2008

NO ONE FOLDS AA PREFLOP!!! EVER And if you claim you have I claim you are bluffing

sms3484 · Jan 1, 2008

I actually did fold AA pf once, no bluff! It was in a SnG where there were 4 people left, and only 3 get paid. I held pocket aces and had re-raised, when every other player either went all in or called the all ins behind them. I thought about it, and folded AA for the only time in my life. Well I made the right move because 2 of those 3 people got eliminated and I got to go heads up for a much larger cash prize instead of risking elimination on the bubble!

rob5775 · Jan 1, 2008

sms3484 said:
I actually did fold AA pf once, no bluff! It was in a SnG where there were 4 people left, and only 3 get paid. I held pocket aces and had re-raised, when every other player either went all in or called the all ins behind them. I thought about it, and folded AA for the only time in my life. Well I made the right move because 2 of those 3 people got eliminated and I got to go heads up for a much larger cash prize instead of risking elimination on the bubble!

Eh...Uh, even without knowing the stacksizes I call everytime. Even without using icm calculator I'm pretty sure this is a -ev play. How can anyone seriously fold there?

vanquish · Jan 1, 2008

snrcreech said:
NO ONE FOLDS AA PREFLOP!!! EVER And if you claim you have I claim you are bluffing

satellites imo

sms3484 · Jan 1, 2008

switch0723 said:
I would fold vs 3 all ins late because i would prefer my chances of playing 6 handed with a decent chip stack than end up leaving it to the gods of whether i stay in tourny or not

This was basically my reason for the play, though if I were actually at the final table in the WSOP (we can all dream, can't we?) I would probably be more likely to also go all in just because you enter the WSOP to WIN not to come in 6th or whatever!

I was on the bubble in my case and I wanted to garuntee that I got my money back at least, which is defintely positive EV, but perhaps calling would be a bit higher positive EV?

switch0723 · Jan 1, 2008

in a situation where there are 6 or more all ins i would prefer to have mid suited conenctors than the rockets, since the aces will probably need to hit a set against 6 players to win, which is agaisnt the odds. Where as mid suited connectors offer a wider range to win a multi way pot.

Someone run the OP in a calculator to see the odds of aces winning against 3 randoms

riffpoker · Jan 1, 2008

update:
Another point in favor of a muck here provided we are talking final table with pretty much even stacks all-in is I'd much rather be all-in heads up with AA than against 3. More in the hand more chance of those AA's getting cracked. Guarantee double your take home pay if you fold or .....gamble if you call. If I was the big stack or had them all covered insta-call.

vanquish · Jan 1, 2008

we already had this thread ~7 times before and the consensus was that the only case when you should be folding AA preflop in a WSOP-type situation is one where the guarantee of a little extra money would either be HUGELY life-changing (utility theory) or where even 5xing up (or however many players) still wouldn't guarantee you a decent chance of winning (such as: you have 30k chips and 5 players each with 1 million chips go all in)

AA early/ late in tournament

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