A poker video - Nonsense I tell you, COMPLETE NONSENSE

punctual

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wow. the most ridiculous bunch of nonsense I have ever listened to. I wish all of my poker opponents had the same mentality as the guy in this video....loser's mentality. In chess, you would see magnus carleson come out on top every year no matter how many players there were. But poker, being a game of incomplete information, is different. the incomplete nature of poker means that a professional will win over a large number of hands played but not win all the time. For this reason, less than pro players can do very well in the game and make a lot of money.

I also do not believe there is necessarily a cap on progress in poker: the learning curve may become steeper the longer you study the game but by no means does it become completely insurmountable. The more you study the more you will learn. When you know 99% of the game and are now at the point where you are plugging leaks this is the most challenging aspect of the learning process because you are now trying to fix problems that are particular to your own psyche; changing "natural" behaviours is and should be expected to be one of the hardest endeavors in and of itself. So one may take a long time at this stage of the learning process but this does not mean that one has hit a proverbial brick wall.

Nonsense I say. This entire video....
 
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psychoiticmaniac

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Hehehe yes I do agree with you. And this guy in video thinks "Everyone is terrible at Poker"
 
duggs

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Respectfully, he is a hell of a lot more qualified to make those statements and I don't really see anything I hugely disagree with, I only skimmed it so point out things specifically you think are wrong
 
BenjiHustle

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Seems legit. I saw this video a long time ago and the only problem I had with it is that it was so obvious that I was basically just nodding along with it waiting for it to strike an "Aha!" for me.

duggs asked a good question... What exactly is "wrong" about it other than "all of it"?
 
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WiZZiM

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watched to about 5 minutes, seems pretty spot on to me.
 
punctual

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He just has a very negative outlook on life. Saying that no matter how much you study and perfect your game in poker you will never be a Phil Ivey. If Phil Ivey were God then I might agree. But I don't believe there is any limit to how far I personally can go in anything I choose to do. It is this kind of nonsense brainwashing that serves as the biggest obstacle to anyone wishing to accomplish anything in life.

Think for a second about all the things you have accomplished in your own life that people have told you would be near impossible. Had you listened to these people, you would not have found success.

I don't like negative people and I certainly do not like anyone telling me what I can or can not accomplish in my life. I especially look down upon ANYONE who will idolize another human being to such an extent as to essentially imply "this man is a god." I hold no man in such high esteem and fear no man at the poker table.

It is for this reason I say that I wish my poker tables were filled with hundreds of Ed Millers: people with that mentality have lost the battle before it has even begun! In fact, it is probably that mentality that has kept him from progressing his own poker game. Just because he may have hit a proverbial brick wall in his poker development does not mean that he should spew that kind of nonsense upon others. I understand that this is the lens through which he views the world (i.e. from a loser's perspective) but I will not subscribe to that nonsense.

I suppose this video hit such a nerve with me because new poker players may be impressionable enough to be brainwashed by nonsense like this. My advice to anyone willing to dedicate their lives to any particular art or profession: don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can not do it!
 
dmorris68

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Respectfully, he is a hell of a lot more qualified to make those statements and I don't really see anything I hugely disagree with, I only skimmed it so point out things specifically you think are wrong

Seems legit. I saw this video a long time ago and the only problem I had with it is that it was so obvious that I was basically just nodding along with it waiting for it to strike an "Aha!" for me.

duggs asked a good question... What exactly is "wrong" about it other than "all of it"?

watched to about 5 minutes, seems pretty spot on to me.

Agree with all of the above. I watched the whole thing, and Ed Miller is spot on with this. This is "the" Ed Miller BTW. If you don't know who he is OP, you might want to do a little research. He is an authority who, as duggs put it, is well qualified to say so.
 
punctual

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Agree with all of the above. I watched the whole thing, and Ed Miller is spot on with this. This is "the" Ed Miller BTW. If you don't know who he is OP, you might want to do a little research. He is an authority who, as duggs put it, is well qualified to say so.

Oh you mean the poker pro who has plateaued in his career after making just around $300,000.....

well it's glad to see others believing the nonsense coming out of this guy.......i really do hope to see you all at the tables....:)
 
BenjiHustle

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I suppose this video hit such a nerve with me because new poker players may be impressionable enough to be brainwashed by nonsense like this. My advice to anyone willing to dedicate their lives to any particular art or profession: don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can not do it!

I can understand and agree with this. Truth is, though, that this video (and the 2nd part) was helpful for me in my beginning stages of poker as well as a nice refresher. It's to be taken with a grain of salt; I don't think anyone's going to be too influenced by this particular video in a negative sense. He's being realistic and we can simply understand it as such.
 
dmorris68

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Oh you mean the poker pro who has plateaued in his career after making just around $300,000.....
He isn't known as a poker pro, he's a highly respected poker author and instructor.

But continue to believe what you will...
 
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Oh you mean the poker pro who has plateaued in his career after making just around $300,000.....

well it's glad to see others believing the nonsense coming out of this guy.......i really do hope to see you all at the tables....:)

I echo what duggs, dmo and wIZZIm said and I'll take things one step further: you REALLY DON'T want to see any of the group who agree with Ed at the tables. We're way ahead of you in the poker life cycle and, as a result, you'd be in over your head.

Good luck on the felt.

-HooDooKoo
 
duggs

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He just has a very negative outlook on life. Saying that no matter how much you study and perfect your game in poker you will never be a Phil Ivey. If Phil Ivey were God then I might agree. But I don't believe there is any limit to how far I personally can go in anything I choose to do. It is this kind of nonsense brainwashing that serves as the biggest obstacle to anyone wishing to accomplish anything in life.

Think for a second about all the things you have accomplished in your own life that people have told you would be near impossible. Had you listened to these people, you would not have found success.

I don't like negative people and I certainly do not like anyone telling me what I can or can not accomplish in my life. I especially look down upon ANYONE who will idolize another human being to such an extent as to essentially imply "this man is a god." I hold no man in such high esteem and fear no man at the poker table.

It is for this reason I say that I wish my poker tables were filled with hundreds of Ed Millers: people with that mentality have lost the battle before it has even begun! In fact, it is probably that mentality that has kept him from progressing his own poker game. Just because he may have hit a proverbial brick wall in his poker development does not mean that he should spew that kind of nonsense upon others. I understand that this is the lens through which he views the world (i.e. from a loser's perspective) but I will not subscribe to that nonsense.

I suppose this video hit such a nerve with me because new poker players may be impressionable enough to be brainwashed by nonsense like this. My advice to anyone willing to dedicate their lives to any particular art or profession: don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can not do it!


So why aren't you in the nba or nfl or FIFA World Cup. Or playing the main still? This is just really sloppy thinking. Also passive aggressive taunts like hope to have people like you at tables really irk me, there are plenty of people here who follow and enjoy ed miller, challenge them or drop the insinuations.
 
BenjiHustle

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Also passive aggressive taunts like hope to have people like you at tables really irk me, there are plenty of people here who follow and enjoy ed miller, challenge them or drop the insinuations.
+1

I'm irk'd, also.

Thing is, I feel like you're upset that nobody agrees with you, but the reason that nobody agrees with you is because you must have disagreed with this video as soon as you saw the name of it. I feel like everyone in here has watched it in more depth than you have while you saw the name and freaked out and came here.

This is not a judgment, it's just how it looks and feels. The whole argument is ignorant af.
 
Himanshu

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well if everyone thought i can not beat top guy in the game they play we would never had got new world champ and new Olympic gold medalist i have never heard of this guy ed miller so i am thinking he is in a way talking about himself most people play poker 4 fun like any other game their are many lovers of the game and a few world class players .If you can learn poker you can beat anyone and anyone who learns can beat you this is the beauty of poker and that's why so many people all over the world play this game.
 
BenjiHustle

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well if everyone thought i can not beat top guy in the game they play we would never had got new world champ and new Olympic gold medalist i have never heard of this guy ed miller so i am thinking he is in a way talking about himself most people play poker 4 fun like any other game their are many lovers of the game and a few world class players .If you can learn poker you can beat anyone and anyone who learns can beat you this is the beauty of poker and that's why so many people all over the world play this game.
This is spot on. Do some research on Ed Miller, though, because it'll tell you more than the video alone will and helps you understand the angle a bit better. Perhaps that's why this comes across the way it does to some?
 
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LukeSilver

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I think your missing the point, this isn't negative its very positive in fact. its stating if your not already at the top level possible then you can overcome your opponents, because neither are they and they do have flaws.

the whole nurture nature debate is one that has been raging for century's or more. The truth is that no one fully knows. I have seen individuals that depending on the environment can literally range from having an IQ to low to be able to look after themselves in the most basic ways, all the way up to been among the greatest genius in the world.

when we come across the dumb blonde we assume that she will never be able to grasp advanced concepts however who knows if they had the education and the right circumstances. I wont deny genetics is a factor and if you don't have the genetics you probably can only go so far.

What i do dispute is that anyone can currently look at an individual and know what there capacity is.

However one thing is clear if you want to achieve big it will require a lot of effort a huge amount. lots of money is up for grabs to those able and willing.

but ill ask you one question have you ever done your best tried your hardest? not just in poker but anything?

if you answer yes to that question then I will out right call you a liar, and state until you change your attitude you will never reach the top level in anything.

not that your not able, not that you lack the capacity, I cant say that theres no way I could know that, but that you wont because you have the wrong attitude.

very few people in the world try there hardest and give it 100%.

if youve got exams and you spend 6 hours a day studying you havn't tried your hardest or done your best. despite the fact that would be in excess of the vast majority of students.

trying your hardest is giving up everything, really taking the extremes.

Michael Jordan (basketball player) and Phil Ivey went to insane levels.

working long hours and making huge sacrifices if anyone ever saw Michael Jordan's sick game they would realize why he was the best. to go to that extent to push it when every part of you wants to give up. very few people in the world have that level of devotion.

Did you know that Phil ivey used to sleep rough, in order to be able to play poker more. if that doesn't speak volumes about his attitude I don't know what would.

the amount of computer software the amount of analysis the amount of people studying the game the books the training videos, everything out there and all the efforts put in. to be top of any activity which has had this much global input is a feat deserving to be recognized as been among the very best that man kind has to offer.

if your not willing to make the huge sacrifices and efforts needed to reach the very top, and there are good reasons not to do that, then you will never reach that level.

if you truly are willing to make that effort and have that fight in you then I will never tell you, that you cant make it, because you might just be right.
 
BenjiHustle

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That sure was long-winded and off-topic. You make it sound as though 24/7 dedication isn't enough. To be certain, there's always that other level that people can take things to, but to suggest that something like studying 6 hours a day isn't trying your hardest is absurd. If somebody is studying for 6 hours, the odds are that they're willing to do anything to be the best, but don't know what to do. The work you put into your game is going to be more about quality than quantity, especially in poker, because of the garbage that you can end up studying. Kind of like the OP's feelings about this video, sometimes you spend your time studying something that's worthless to your game. Some material even sets you back.

Saying that someone's never tried their best is f*cking ignorant beyond belief. Maybe you're just a lazy POS or have never had anything to truly dedicate yourself to. Giving up stuff doesn't mean you're trying harder and neither does the amount of hours that are put into whatever skill you're working on. People have circumstances within their own lives to overcome and not everything can always be about what you want it to be about. Just because I want to work on my poker game 24 hours a day doesn't take away the fact that I've got responsibilities.
 
AlfieAA

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I think your missing the point, this isn't negative its very positive in fact. its stating if your not already at the top level possible then you can overcome your opponents, because neither are they and they do have flaws.

the whole nurture nature debate is one that has been raging for century's or more. The truth is that no one fully knows. I have seen individuals that depending on the environment can literally range from having an IQ to low to be able to look after themselves in the most basic ways, all the way up to been among the greatest genius in the world.

when we come across the dumb blonde we assume that she will never be able to grasp advanced concepts however who knows if they had the education and the right circumstances. I wont deny genetics is a factor and if you don't have the genetics you probably can only go so far.

What i do dispute is that anyone can currently look at an individual and know what there capacity is.

However one thing is clear if you want to achieve big it will require a lot of effort a huge amount. lots of money is up for grabs to those able and willing.

but ill ask you one question have you ever done your best tried your hardest? not just in poker but anything?

if you answer yes to that question then I will out right call you a liar, and state until you change your attitude you will never reach the top level in anything.

not that your not able, not that you lack the capacity, I cant say that theres no way I could know that, but that you wont because you have the wrong attitude.

very few people in the world try there hardest and give it 100%.

if youve got exams and you spend 6 hours a day studying you havn't tried your hardest or done your best. despite the fact that would be in excess of the vast majority of students.

trying your hardest is giving up everything, really taking the extremes.

Michael Jordan (basketball player) and Phil Ivey went to insane levels.

working long hours and making huge sacrifices if anyone ever saw Michael Jordan's sick game they would realize why he was the best. to go to that extent to push it when every part of you wants to give up. very few people in the world have that level of devotion.

Did you know that Phil ivey used to sleep rough, in order to be able to play poker more. if that doesn't speak volumes about his attitude I don't know what would.

the amount of computer software the amount of analysis the amount of people studying the game the books the training videos, everything out there and all the efforts put in. to be top of any activity which has had this much global input is a feat deserving to be recognized as been among the very best that man kind has to offer.

if your not willing to make the huge sacrifices and efforts needed to reach the very top, and there are good reasons not to do that, then you will never reach that level.

if you truly are willing to make that effort and have that fight in you then I will never tell you, that you cant make it, because you might just be right.

i like this

didnt find it long winded at all....nice post sir
 
AlfieAA

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the video is correct....it doesnt matter who made it, its a fact of life..people who excel to the top at anything, work extremely hard and possess other ridiculous qualities that set them apart from the average person.

im proud to say that im a club player and probably always will be. quite honestly i cant be arsed giving poker my absolute all...and even if i did, i dont have the ridiculous qualities that would take me to the very top anyway lol...although i would prob be better than club level :)

its best to be honest with yourself and accept the realities.
 
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That sure was long-winded and off-topic. You make it sound as though 24/7 dedication isn't enough. To be certain, there's always that other level that people can take things to, but to suggest that something like studying 6 hours a day isn't trying your hardest is absurd. If somebody is studying for 6 hours, the odds are that they're willing to do anything to be the best, but don't know what to do. The work you put into your game is going to be more about quality than quantity, especially in poker, because of the garbage that you can end up studying. Kind of like the OP's feelings about this video, sometimes you spend your time studying something that's worthless to your game. Some material even sets you back.

Saying that someone's never tried their best is f*cking ignorant beyond belief. Maybe you're just a lazy POS or have never had anything to truly dedicate yourself to. Giving up stuff doesn't mean you're trying harder and neither does the amount of hours that are put into whatever skill you're working on. People have circumstances within their own lives to overcome and not everything can always be about what you want it to be about. Just because I want to work on my poker game 24 hours a day doesn't take away the fact that I've got responsibilities.

if you applied yourself and studied properly you would or should reach the level where you will recognize what is useful and what is a waste of time. if you want to pick up a poker book and just accept it without thinking, then your wasting your time. my usual method is who is saying this? what sort of track record do they have etc. when I can verify that the person making the training videos selling the coaching or writing the books has a very good track record and a proven winning history at an impressive level, i know they are worth listening to.

if you just walk into a book shop and buy the first poker book you see without asking these questions then your right you might just be wasting your time.
I can point you to a youtuber who claims he has become a millionaire from poker he sells stuff in this regard to. if you listen to his introductory video and the fact he doesnt give out a player name etc then you would realize listening to him is a waste of money and time.

I purchased some training videos from a decent source which i checked out first and my game has shown immediate improvements.

I don't think I have ever put maximum effort into anything and i wont hide from that. very few people in the world have ever put there hardest effort into anything. I wont ever reach world class level at anything until i acknowledge that and change my input. Until I can accept and admit that and make that change it won't happen and that's the same for everyone. and the hard truth is even then i could still fail. so could you, I hope i can reach the stars but I know if i truly shoot for the stars its highly likely I will at least land on the moon. if I shoot for the moon I doubt I will get off the ground.

When the Zebra falls to the ground and is eaten by the lions it could say it tried its hardest it ran its fastest non of the other zebras or the lions will care though.

your confusing acceptable effort with hardest effort. It currently is not expected for students to spend 6 hours a day studying, if they are doing less then they may well still be working hard but there not working there hardest.

everyone has commitments if you care enough you will find a way. if not then pound the sand and hate those that point out you don't have the drive to reach the very top. Because people can mully cuddle you and say its alright but its jungle out there and the lions are waiting.

you want to know who I am really having a go at myself because for the past few days I have only put in 3 or 4 hours a day studying, instead of 12. I have also wasted time trying too explain the obvious to you. I'm done i need to go study.

your never going to make it you have the wrong attitude.
 
BenjiHustle

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your never going to make it you have the wrong attitude.
The fact that I'm here and alive right now proves you wrong. You're just ignorant; I knew it from the jump. Well, you continue to put in your 80%, I'll be here going 110 like I always do and always have.
 
duggs

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Man, ever heard of overtraining? Burnout? Sustainability?

Sooooo holier than thou
 
BenjiHustle

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Man, ever heard of overtraining? Burnout? Sustainability?

Sooooo holier than thou
+1

This is what I'm referring to when I say quality over quantity. What do I know, though? I'll never make it and I totes have the wrong 'tude.
 
Jblocher1

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Subbing. Nothing to add currently, but definitely interesting.

@lukesilver... No need to take shots at benji. Don't talk smack like that to someone unless you know their whole story IMO.

Btw.... "Doing your best" is quantitative and has a different meaning for different people. I studied 10 hours for each of my finals this year. I could have done more, I could have done 20.... But I didn't. Does that mean I didn't try hard enough? Does that mean I didn't do my best? Where does your number "6 hours" come from in terms of trying your hardest? For some 6 hours is more than hard enough.... But for some 6 hours doesn't suffice as "trying your hardest". Tbh luke..... I don't really like your attitude in this thread


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