A Good player with no P.T v's an average player with poker tracker/colour labelling

C

cotta777

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Who do you think would fair better, lets say a talented player without no information at hand no tracker no labelling. 4-6 tabling against an average player
lets say the average player now has PT and colour labelling, who do you expect to profit most?

also in maybe a cash game on same table good v average - would that now give the average player an edge online over a better player, or do you still think that the good player would be superior to the average player who has all the info and
stats at hand
 
Akorps

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Interesting thread.

I don't like to use software, trying to see how far one can go without it.

There are some good softwares that can give a big edge though. There was one for stud hi-lo and razz that I really liked, kept track of all the cards and told me when I had the nuts :)
 
dmorris68

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Depends on what you consider "good" but I would argue a talented, winning player will do just fine without a tracker/HUD against an "average" player.

I don't know if I would qualify under your definition of "good" but I'm a lifetime winning player by a long shot. I've had to play without a tracker/HUD at times for various technical reasons (site updates, different computer, bugs in a new tracker version, etc.) and it really didn't affect my winrate that I could tell. It did force me to concentrate more, take better notes (mental or physical), and perhaps tighten up a bit, particularly when playing multiple tables. When playing 1-2 tables, I can pretty quickly deduce a player's style/skill without a HUD. I use it because it's available and it frees me up to play more tables/hands than I might otherwise.

It's a widely held misconception (especially among ignorant people who have never actually learned to use it) that LEGAL poker software like PT/HM makes a bad player into a good player just by installing and starting it up. It's a TOOL -- much like a book or coaching video -- that can certainly accelerate improvement when applied properly, but by itself it won't change your game, any more than handing a random guy a hammer and some nails makes him a carpenter. In fact for those that DON'T learn to use it properly, it can hurt your game, because you become a slave to stats without understanding them or your own leaks.
 
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dmorris68 said:
Depends on what you consider "good" but I would argue a talented, winning player will do just fine without a tracker/HUD against an "average" player.

I don't know if I would qualify under your definition of "good" but I'm a lifetime winning player by a long shot. I've had to play without a tracker/HUD at times for various technical reasons (site updates, different computer, bugs in a new tracker version, etc.) and it really didn't affect my winrate that I could tell. It did force me to concentrate more, take better notes (mental or physical), and perhaps tighten up a bit, particularly when playing multiple tables. When playing 1-2 tables, I can pretty quickly deduce a player's style/skill without a HUD. I use it because it's available and it frees me up to play more tables/hands than I might otherwise.

It's a widely held misconception (especially among ignorant people who have never actually learned to use it) that LEGAL poker software like PT/HM makes a bad player into a good player just by installing and starting it up. It's a TOOL -- much like a book or coaching video -- that can certainly accelerate improvement when applied properly, but by itself it won't change your game, any more than handing a random guy a hammer and some nails makes him a carpenter. In fact for those that DON'T learn to use it properly, it can hurt your game, because you become a slave to stats without understanding them or your own leaks.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with dmorris' take on this. Legal poker software like PT/HM does not turn bad players into winning players. Since average players are losing players, I like the good player without the software --- and it isn't close.

-HooDooKoo
 
hobonc

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Que the poker tracking software is cheating type comments in 5.....4....3....2....1
 
Akorps

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dmorris68 said:
Depends on what you consider "good" but I would argue a talented, winning player will do just fine without a tracker/HUD against an "average" player.

I don't know if I would qualify under your definition of "good" but I'm a lifetime winning player by a long shot. I've had to play without a tracker/HUD at times for various technical reasons (site updates, different computer, bugs in a new tracker version, etc.) and it really didn't affect my winrate that I could tell. It did force me to concentrate more, take better notes (mental or physical), and perhaps tighten up a bit, particularly when playing multiple tables. When playing 1-2 tables, I can pretty quickly deduce a player's style/skill without a HUD. I use it because it's available and it frees me up to play more tables/hands than I might otherwise.

It's a widely held misconception (especially among ignorant people who have never actually learned to use it) that LEGAL poker software like PT/HM makes a bad player into a good player just by installing and starting it up. It's a TOOL -- much like a book or coaching video -- that can certainly accelerate improvement when applied properly, but by itself it won't change your game, any more than handing a random guy a hammer and some nails makes him a carpenter. In fact for those that DON'T learn to use it properly, it can hurt your game, because you become a slave to stats without understanding them or your own leaks.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I actually don't like using extra software, glad there is hope for me :)

Seems like there is plenty of information already, just watching the other players at the table, maybe more information than it is possible to assimilate :)
 
vinylspiros

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if your playing zoom or many cash tables, its priceless and pays for itself. If you dont have it, your at a disadvantage. People know what your style is with precision and you are just guessing.
 
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