5/10 limit and 1/2 no limit

ok the people that know me on here are aware of what happened to me a couple days ago so no need to go into great detail about that. Last two days I have been talking to all my poker friends (and my wife ) and what I have come to a decision. Now I thought I had a terrible bankroll issue and yea I kinda do but its not really the same as most, see I play way above my bankroll because really the money to me is not the issue but the fact that im leaking money is. Like I can deposit money and if I lose it then thats fine with me, the part that makes me mad is the fact that im leaking it (hope that makes sense to you guys).

ok so I think after talking to my friends that know about my skills, have watched me play, and I have helped improve their game I have figured out where my leak is. The problem is I really cant play small stakes but im only depositing enough to support those small stakes. Like I will put 1k online but that only covers me for barley $50 NL and not even enough for 2/4 limit. So as of right now im on a forced ban from pokerstars for 2 months and when I come back I plan on depositing enough for the stakes I feel like I should be playing which are the 2 that I put in this title.

Now I have played both these levels a pretty good amount and have shown decent results in them. Live I play both these limits and online I have played limit up to 10/20 and No limit up to 5/10, I'm not good enought for these 2 limits. I'm good enough for 5/10 limit and 2/4 NL but I'm only going to put 4k on so I will not be bankrolled for 2/4 NL, honestly the players at 5/10 limit are really not the greatest and players at 1/2NL are pretty horrible. I dont plan on depositing again after this 4k though, again the money is not the issue but I'm thinking this may relieve some of my bankroll issues seeing I will be playing what I feel comfortable at and will see no reason at all to move up for awhile if ever. I think that was my major issue is the fact that I just dont enjoy those lower limits.

Im a thinking player, and a student of the game and at lower limits I feel like some of my thought process is just too much. Now im not saying I can not beat the lower limits, I know I can but its just not enjoyable for me to sit at a $25NL game and I find myself opening like 4-8 tables and I feel that takes away from a lot of the advantages I have on my opponents. If I play 5/10 limit or 1/2 nl I feel I can just play 2 tables and my thought process through the hand will pay off big time.

I dont know what I really expect from this post more then something I just wanted to share with you all. This is something I feel I should of done a long time ago, my wife told me today that it might take away from my wsop money next year but I feel like if I get in these games as soon as possible I should be able to make that money by then online. So as for the next 2 months I plan on absorbing everything I can about the games I'm planning on playing which includes watching these games on stars and reading everything I can get my hands on. I have experience in them already like I said but all the info I can get on them wont hurt. Thanks guys for reading this.

cool.....im gonna be honest and say i only read half of it...lol but gl with yr 4k i got to that part hope u win big.

bob_tiger said:

cool.....im gonna be honest and say i only read half of it...lol but gl with yr 4k i got to that part hope u win big.

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yea you should proboly read the rest of it because your hope you win big comment kinda defeats the purpose of the entire thread.


let me sumerize for the lazy, putting good size bankroll on, playing levels im familier with, being happy at those levels, bottom line.

i sucked at 10&25nl

Good luck my friend. I've played way bigger live (2/5) NL than I play at Stars (50NL) and I find the skill level may even be worse in the live games. Obviously depends where you play and what table you get but I'm nicely up at higher levels.

I know what you mean about thought process level and I hope this move is the right one for you. Just as a contingency though, have the levels marked where, if bad beats and variance rear their ugly head, you can move down to maybe 1/2NL or 3/6 Limit. Keep it tight and enjoy.

Good luck.

I think the key in your OP is that your initial deposit would allow for proper BR management.
You're obviously a good and experienced player so do what you think suits your play best.
Go gettem!!!

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible idea?

aliengenius said:

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible idea?

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Nope.

I have a couple of questions, and if you choose not to answer I'll respect that but I think the big picture is whats important.

(1) What happened a few days ago that you allude to.

(2) How many times have you deposited and for what amounts?

(3) What levels were you playing after the deposits.

I reserve the right to comment on your plan until I know all the facts. Based on the limited information (Isn't that what poker is ultimately? Making the best decision on the limited information you have?), I'm inclined to agree with AG and Sticker.

aliengenius said:

Am I the only one who thinks this is a terrible idea?

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MrSticker said:

Nope.

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Effexor said:

Based on the limited information ...... I'm inclined to agree with AG and Sticker.

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That`s four of us, then.

Make it 5, but good luck in your endeavor.

if he feels more comfortable at 5/10LHE and 200nlhe i dont see a problem. properly rolled & comfy at the stakes along with a swell understanding of the game he should be fine.

most anyone else i would not support the idea.

"Feels more comfortable"? What does that mean? I read, "I don't have the discipline to beat lower limits because there is not enough 'action' there (possible mild gambling problem?), and I have a fairly serious issue with tilt as well."

Moving up in stakes (properly bankrolled or not) does nothing to address any underlying issue.

I have no idea what this recent event that Storm has been involved in is, none of my business....but.......
Am I correct in assuming that Storm has been saving money to go play in the WSOP next year? I don't know Storm personally but I'm pretty sure I've seen it mentioned a few times.
In the OP he clearly states that his investment will be large enough to allow for proper BR management. The BR will most likely come from the WSOP funds.

Assuming all previous statements are true:

Worst case scenario.....he can't win at these levels and learns an expensive lesson. The expense would come out of the funds that were being save for a run at the WSOP...........which would have to be seriously rethought by anyone that can't beat these games.

Best case scenario......he kicks ass and onward and forward he goes.

Where's the downside?

i had more trouble at 10max than i do at 100max

kcanuck said:

Worst case scenario.....he can't win at these levels and learns an expensive lesson.

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Minus $4,000 isn't enough of a downside?

Well, first Id just like to say good luck storm. If you feel that this is what u truly want to do then I dont think anyone should tell u not to do it. You said that you have played a fairly large sample of hands at the limits you are going to play, so as long as u know what u are in for, go for it.

The only thing I noticed is that AG quoted something about tilt, which I did not see in your OP (perhaps I am blind) and I personally would want to have tilt fully under control b4 I played the limits you are suggesting. You dont want to be tilting away hundreds of dollars at a time.

I have actually been thinking about doing the same thing on a smaller level. I really want to play 50NL, but dont have enough funds to deposit 1k. I hate grinding out small buy-in SnGs, but that is what I am doing right now. Guess I will have to wait til I am out of school and have a solid job to make my big deposit.

aliengenius said:

"Feels more comfortable"? What does that mean? I read, "I don't have the discipline to beat lower limits because there is not enough 'action' there (possible mild gambling problem?), and I have a fairly serious issue with tilt as well."

Moving up in stakes (properly bankrolled or not) does nothing to address any underlying issue.

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I totally agree with this. But here's a couple more points:

1) I've seen Storm say in effect "The money doesn't matter" a few times. If that's true, then the stakes level shouldn't matter either. Whether it's .01/.02 or 100/200, it shouldn't matter if the money doesn't. When Storm says $25NL is "not enjoyable", I think he means the wins aren't large enough so he has to open more tables to win more money but loses his cognitive edge that way. If the money didn't matter, then $25NL WOULD be just as enjoyable.

2) He says his thought process at lower limits is "just too much". I think he misunderstands "too much" as being "different". To be a good overall poker player, one must be able to feel comfortable at ANY stakes within their bankroll and different stakes take different approaches. What if he loses $3900 of his $4k and has to play on a $100 BR? Is he going to give up the game since he is not comfortable playing the lower stakes? Or just let his game rot while he saves his money again to play higher stakes? To me, "comfort" equals "winning". Even though he says he can "beat the lower stakes", I think his uncomfortability is in his inconsistent winning at these stakes. And that's a bad feeling to take with you to the higher stakes.

Storm, sorry to be blunt here. But when you spill your life like this here on the forum, you have to expect to get hammered by folks who disagree. You had to have learned this after the last announcement you made about using your wife's account to avoid railers. I still hope it all works out for you.

aliengenius said:

"Feels more comfortable"? What does that mean? I read, "I don't have the discipline to beat lower limits because there is not enough 'action' there (possible mild gambling problem?), and I have a fairly serious issue with tilt as well."

Moving up in stakes (properly bankrolled or not) does nothing to address any underlying issue.

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comfortable meaning these are the levels I play live but never put enough on to play these levels online. Online bankroll managment and live bankroll managment is two different things totally. I know im going to get greif for that statement but it is true. Live you dont really have to be totally bankrolled for a level because you do not play every day, If you have 1k you can go play some 1/2NL every couple weeks without it being a problem, but online you need the bankroll because you will be playing everyday and usually more then 1 table.

thats where the comfort comes in, these are the games I know.

aliengenius said:

Minus $4,000 isn't enough of a downside?

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Like I said this is money I can lose and it not be horrible, I do not take money out of like bill money and such, I do not go to my checking account and take money out that I know is needed. This is extra money that I can use. If I happen to lose this money then yes I would really really concider quiting online poker all together and just playing live for recreation.

MrSticker said:

I totally agree with this. But here's a couple more points:

1) I've seen Storm say in effect "The money doesn't matter" a few times. If that's true, then the stakes level shouldn't matter either. Whether it's .01/.02 or 100/200, it shouldn't matter if the money doesn't. When Storm says $25NL is "not enjoyable", I think he means the wins aren't large enough so he has to open more tables to win more money but loses his cognitive edge that way. If the money didn't matter, then $25NL WOULD be just as enjoyable.

2) He says his thought process at lower limits is "just too much". I think he misunderstands "too much" as being "different". To be a good overall poker player, one must be able to feel comfortable at ANY stakes within their bankroll and different stakes take different approaches. What if he loses $3900 of his $4k and has to play on a $100 BR? Is he going to give up the game since he is not comfortable playing the lower stakes? Or just let his game rot while he saves his money again to play higher stakes? To me, "comfort" equals "winning". Even though he says he can "beat the lower stakes", I think his uncomfortability is in his inconsistent winning at these stakes. And that's a bad feeling to take with you to the higher stakes.

Storm, sorry to be blunt here. But when you spill your life like this here on the forum, you have to expect to get hammered by folks who disagree. You had to have learned this after the last announcement you made about using your wife's account to avoid railers. I still hope it all works out for you.

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I expect the comments so dont appologize to me, If I didnt want them I wouldnt of posted this. Like I stated above these are very familier games for me, the lower limits are not.

Effexor said:

I have a couple of questions, and if you choose not to answer I'll respect that but I think the big picture is whats important.

(1) What happened a few days ago that you allude to.

(2) How many times have you deposited and for what amounts?

(3) What levels were you playing after the deposits.

I reserve the right to comment on your plan until I know all the facts. Based on the limited information (Isn't that what poker is ultimately? Making the best decision on the limited information you have?), I'm inclined to agree with AG and Sticker.

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I dont mind answering but really the answers have no bearing on what I want to do.

1. lost some money.
2. No idea because I would just deposit money to play with no regard to bankroll.
3. mix of different levels, usually mimicing my live play limits which are stated in the title here.

I have always been a better live player but with everything going on around here and new baby coming it is harder and harder to play live which is why I decided to do this.

I said it before but If I lose this money I would just go to wsop as a spectator and not a player next year. Sure it would suck to lose it but really if I do lose it I wouldnt want to play in it anyway because obviously that would mean there are holes in my game I was unaware of.

I really don't have much to add at this point after reading the other posts, sorry. But, at least for the the record...

JAMILE1 said:

Make it 5, but good luck in your endeavor.

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make me # 6.

But I will say that I wish you the best of luck in this choice.

I had a big long post but I will shorten it to this.

You do have major holes in your game. If you did not you would not be constantly depositing.

This is a bad idea.

Jack Daniels said:

I really don't have much to add at this point after reading the other posts, sorry. But, at least for the the record...


make me # 6.

But I will say that I wish you the best of luck in this choice.

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I knew you wouldnt like it so thats no big suprise.

gord962 said:

Say good bye to the next $4k. Seriously from the rest of your posts I think this is possibly the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. My advice is save your money and find a gamblers anonymous hotline. You need help if you think this idea makes sense.

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Id love to hear your reasoning on this gord? why because im not taking money that is being needed for my day to day life? Serioulsy this is about the dumbest thing I have read in awhile. I have said before that I never use money that I can not afford to lose and that is the biggest thing with people with gambling problems is they do use money they cant afford to lose and hit rock bottom. I never have to choose over paying the car insurance or playing poker because all my responsibilities are taken care of before I ever even think of putting money into poker.

Lo-Dog said:

I had a big long post but I will shorten it to this.

You do have major holes in your game. If you did not you would not be constantly depositing.

This is a bad idea.

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well yes and no, I always deposited just enough to play the games I wanted to, I really never even tried to manage a bankroll. That is the reason behind the constant depositing. I really dont know what would happen if I took the effort to bankroll manage? I plan on taking away as much as I can from this thread though and my goal might change I dont know but we shall see.

MrSticker said:

I totally agree with this. But here's a couple more points:

1) I've seen Storm say in effect "The money doesn't matter" a few times. If that's true, then the stakes level shouldn't matter either. Whether it's .01/.02 or 100/200, it shouldn't matter if the money doesn't. When Storm says $25NL is "not enjoyable", I think he means the wins aren't large enough so he has to open more tables to win more money but loses his cognitive edge that way. If the money didn't matter, then $25NL WOULD be just as enjoyable.

2) He says his thought process at lower limits is "just too much". I think he misunderstands "too much" as being "different". To be a good overall poker player, one must be able to feel comfortable at ANY stakes within their bankroll and different stakes take different approaches. What if he loses $3900 of his $4k and has to play on a $100 BR? Is he going to give up the game since he is not comfortable playing the lower stakes? Or just let his game rot while he saves his money again to play higher stakes? To me, "comfort" equals "winning". Even though he says he can "beat the lower stakes", I think his uncomfortability is in his inconsistent winning at these stakes. And that's a bad feeling to take with you to the higher stakes.

Storm, sorry to be blunt here. But when you spill your life like this here on the forum, you have to expect to get hammered by folks who disagree. You had to have learned this after the last announcement you made about using your wife's account to avoid railers. I still hope it all works out for you.

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^^this is pretty much dead on.

Storm, please consider that it is self delusional to think that this your problem is a "bankroll management" issue. It's not.

Stick is right, if you can't divorce yourself from the money and start thinking in terms of 'poker units' (big blinds, buy-ins, etc.) instead of dollars and cents, then that is something you need to work on.

The fact of the matter is, if you can't beat $50NL, then playing $200NL is not the solution.

And you can't beat $50NL. Sorry, it doesn't matter if the reason you can't beat it is lack of skill or if the reason is lack of discipline and tilt issues. The fact remains, you can't beat $50NL.

Let me also just add that a lot of people play at a lower level on line than they do live (estelle comes to mind), partially because the skill level is a lot higher at similar stakes than it is live.

So let me suggest an alternate course of action:
'Demote' your self to $10NL and play there until you resolve your problem with thinking about money instead of 'units', and, more importantly, until you are immune from tilt. And take that $4k and put it in your new child's college fund.