4 & 2 Rule Problems

Hi,

Ive just been thinking a lot about the rule of 4&2, according to this if you have for example a flush draw on the flop, i.e 9 outs, then you have a 9x4=36% chance of hitting your flush on either the turn or the river and hopefully winning the hand. But my question about it is, say your facing an aggresive opponent or even more than 1, who will bet each street, and you have a flush draw after the flop, if you apply this rule at this stage, you need to get 2:1 pot odds to call and see the turn. So for example the villain in this case bets 2/3 pot and you call since your getting your 2:1. Now this is all very well, but you only have an 18% chance of hitting on the turn (according to the rule) and if you know that the villain will more than likely bet the turn again with a similar bet, then if you miss you have to fold, having wasted your call on the flop by not getting the value you should have.

So essentially (if I havent confused you too much already!) my thoughts is that if you have a flush draw etc, facing an aggro opponent(s) postflop then the rule should be 2&2 and work the pot odds off that for value?
Maybe this is obvious to everyone else and Im just abit behind, or Im overcomplicating it but if anyone else has any thoughts on this I'd be interested to hear them.

Thanks

No, look up Implied Odds and you will answer your question. I don't have time to explain it all right now though.

Well for one thing the 4 rule is very useful if you are in a position to shove on the flop.

But you are right - if you are playing each street you pretty much go from 2-1 to 4-1 from turn to river and well have to make a decision you probably won't like if you miss the turn. But there has been more than once I had the odds to put money in for the turn only to see those odds greatly diminish to see the river (and I usually bail - almost always on a straight draw).

ImpossibleIsNothing said:

Hi,

Ive just been thinking a lot about the rule of 4&2, according to this if you have for example a flush draw on the flop, i.e 9 outs, then you have a 9x4=36% chance of hitting your flush on either the turn or the river and hopefully winning the hand. But my question about it is, say your facing an aggresive opponent or even more than 1, who will bet each street, you need to get 2:1 pot odds to call and see the turn.

Click to expand...

No, this is where you are mis-interpreting the rule. If you are paying to see one street (the turn) then you should calculate your odds using the 2 rule. So with 9 outs you have (2x9) 18% or about 4:1 odds. Then if you face a bet after missing your draw on the turn, use the 2 rule again to calculate your odds of hitting on the river.

The 4 rule is telling you that you have 2:1 odds of hitting your draw from the flop to the river, so only applies if you see both streets for that price.
If one of you is all-in after the flop then you can use the 4 rule to calculate the odds for 2 streets as there will be no further cost.

As pointed out above, you could call with worse odds than 4:1 if you feel that you have implied odds to extract further value when you do hit. This may not be very likely with a flush draw as your opponent may well shut down with 3 of the same suit on the board, but could work in your favour if you are drawing to a well disguised straight.