3x'ing From Cut Off

Jurn8

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Thoughts on this, I watched a few DC vids and noticed a few coaches 3x'ing from the cut off. I know its prety standard to 3x from the BTN and SB but what are your thoughts on 3x'ing from the CO.
I know as you get up through 100nl latew position play gets alot more aggro so would this save a BB here and there or would not gain one if I take the pot down with a Cbet?

Discuss
 
Jagsti

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3b'ing or 3 x bb'ing, discuss?
 
Jagsti

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Right then I'll re-write my answer again, lol!

I make most of my open raises 3xbb from all positions.
 
zachvac

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Most people I thought 3x from everywhere, I like minraising buttons and small blinds against nits. Obviously the more they call oop the bigger the raise you can get away with and you should be tightening your range as well if they don't fold postflop either. If they call from the blinds with ATC when you raise the button make it like 10x just to punish their mistake even more lol.
 
Jurn8

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really? I thought it was standard to 4x in FR up to 600nl?
 
Irexes

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I'm 4x utg and utg+1 then 50% 3 and 4 from utg+2 and 3x from everywhere else.
 
Jurn8

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hmm maybe an idea to change to 3x or adapt rex's strategy then, im just not sure if 4x from CO or HJ n then being 3bet by button is profitable so maybe if I change to 3x. Just not sure tbh
 
Irexes

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I think it's based on something in harrington, and possibly a comment in one of Phil Gordon's books. I've tried 3x in all positions and 4x and this mix seems about right for me.
 
Jurn8

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ah ok, I have harrington but its at Uni anybody any links to any material on this ?
 
Irexes

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I strongly emphasise the "I think" part of my previous post :)
 
Jurn8

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another quick question

are you ISO'ing 3x + 1 or 4x + 1??
 
dd_decker

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Depends a lot on the players who are left to act after you. For example, has the BB been defending his blinds? If so, you may get 3 callers. If they are aggressive, you may end up folding after a raise to your continuation bet. If you have the cards, sure, raise, but know the tendencies of the players before you raise with a hand you may have to lay down later...
 
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Ok I have a few questions.

I play 9 man sngs and have noticed that alot of players now open with a 2.5 raise especially in later stages. Now I am currently reading Moshmans sng book and he recommends this but I stick to the 3x raise for now should I adust to what everyone else is doing?

Ok aswell as this I find players raising in the 1st level through to to ust before we hit 50-100 uber raising with hands ranging from any pocket pair to two suited or connected face cards even stuff like A10o and QJs. For example 10-20 blinds being raised to 180 with KJs. I just usally fold waiting untill blinds hit 50-100 to play unless the cards say otherwise. Am I missing a trick here, should I be calling or raising so early say with AKs oe AQs or some pocket pairs?
 
Jurn8

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Mr McCluskey said:
Ok I have a few questions.

I play 9 man sngs and have noticed that alot of players now open with a 2.5 raise especially in later stages. Now I am currently reading Moshmans sng book and he recommends this but I stick to the 3x raise for now should I adust to what everyone else is doing?

Ok aswell as this I find players raising in the 1st level through to to ust before we hit 50-100 uber raising with hands ranging from any pocket pair to two suited or connected face cards even stuff like A10o and QJs. For example 10-20 blinds being raised to 180 with KJs. I just usally fold waiting untill blinds hit 50-100 to play unless the cards say otherwise. Am I missing a trick here, should I be calling or raising so early say with AKs oe AQs or some pocket pairs?
Click to expand...

soz mr mc I cant give any advice here as I dont play SNGs, I dont know of any solid sng players on CC either because I dont play them soz man. Maybe start your own thread but beware for aload of donk n go advice lol
 
IveGot0uts

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So I'm a bit unclear on what we're saying here. When we say 3bb raise do you mean a raise to a total amount of 3bb (in 25nl making it .75 to go) or raising by 3bb (in 25nl making it 1.00 to go)?

I think if someone says a 3bb raise this would be a raise to 1.00 in 25nl, being the same as saying raising by 3bb, as opposed to raising to 3bb.

I have recently started in my 25nlfr play making it .75 to go from the button and cutoff, and sometimes highjack, table dependent. I standardly raise to 1 dollar from all other positions plus .25 per limper. Since incorporating the raise to only 3bb I've also started mixing in the smaller raises from other positions about 5% of the time, and go with the larger raises on the button and cutoff about the same 5% just to make it harder for anyone paying attention to adjust.
 
GeoffLacey

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zachvac said:
Most people I thought 3x from everywhere, I like minraising buttons and small blinds against nits. Obviously the more they call oop the bigger the raise you can get away with and you should be tightening your range as well if they don't fold postflop either. If they call from the blinds with ATC when you raise the button make it like 10x just to punish their mistake even more lol.
Click to expand...

Is this simply because it makes our c-bets cheaper? And how low down in limits would you recommend this?
 
Jurn8

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IveGot0uts said:
So I'm a bit unclear on what we're saying here. When we say 3bb raise do you mean a raise to a total amount of 3bb (in 25nl making it .75 to go) or raising by 3bb (in 25nl making it 1.00 to go)?

I think if someone says a 3bb raise this would be a raise to 1.00 in 25nl, being the same as saying raising by 3bb, as opposed to raising to 3bb.

I have recently started in my 25nlfr play making it .75 to go from the button and cutoff, and sometimes highjack, table dependent. I standardly raise to 1 dollar from all other positions plus .25 per limper. Since incorporating the raise to only 3bb I've also started mixing in the smaller raises from other positions about 5% of the time, and go with the larger raises on the button and cutoff about the same 5% just to make it harder for anyone paying attention to adjust.
Click to expand...

3xBB = 3x 1BB so 0.75 for 25nl, 1.50 for 50nl


I tried rexes strategy in my last session and it seemed to work nicely, I mean if i was being 3bet alot it would save me a few BBs per session and hopefully is more profitable in the long run
 
zachvac

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Jurn8 said:
really? I thought it was standard to 4x in FR up to 600nl?
Click to expand...
At 100-400nl it's extremely rare to see people regularly opening to 4x in FR.

Jurn8 said:
another quick question

are you ISO'ing 3x + 1 or 4x + 1??
Click to expand...
Not sure if this was to me but personally I iso 3x+1 although oop I'll sometimes add in another bb.

GeoffLacey said:
Is this simply because it makes our c-bets cheaper? And how low down in limits would you recommend this?
Click to expand...

No, mostly it's because people make the mistake of calling too much but would fold and play more correctly if I raise 3x. I'd recommend it as low as you can exploit this. If they call too much when you 3x it then I 3x it. If they call too much when you 10x it then you can 10x, it's just like live games. At a 1/2 live game you can raise to $10-12 and people still call too much so you should raise to that.
 
Jurn8

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thanks zach all I need to know.

Nolan or Bottomset I forgot which said they didnt see it up until 600nl and werent fans of 3x until 600nl. However I have been doing it the last few session and works alot better. Think I will continue to 3x tbh
 
zachvac

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Well Nolan's a lot better than I am so I'd listen to him lol. Didn't think bottomset played above 100nl.
 
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3X from CO is standard, I play CO similar to button, but with a little tighter raising range
 
Jurn8

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zachvac said:
Well Nolan's a lot better than I am so I'd listen to him lol. Didn't think bottomset played above 100nl.
Click to expand...

must have been Nolan then. TBH I like 3x'ing better than 4xing at 50nl so may see how it goes.

Has Nolan ever played in the LAPT though ;)
 
Infamous1020

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zachvac said:
Most people I thought 3x from everywhere, I like minraising buttons and small blinds against nits. Obviously the more they call oop the bigger the raise you can get away with and you should be tightening your range as well if they don't fold postflop either. If they call from the blinds with ATC when you raise the button make it like 10x just to punish their mistake even more lol.
Click to expand...

what he said
 
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