Is 35% ITM on SnG's positive long term?

Hi All,

Have recently gone back to some micro 9 people SnG's on stars. After just over 100 games i have just over a 35% ITM rate. Is this good. If 35% + can be maintained long-term will playing SnG's be profitable? Or what type of ITM rate would be considered profitable?

Thanks all,

PS: Is there any reading material online about what to aim for specific to SnG's?

well to be honest i have seen better but its definitely good and yes in a long run it would be profitable. In Sngs you wanna be more concerned about ROI. I think being itm is good but you want a high roi. I will give you an example, lets say you are playing 6.50 9 mans, 1st place 27, 2nd 18 and 3rd 9. Ok lets say you play 5 of them, if you get for instance 2nd, and 3nd and 3rd, compared to lets say just 1st and 2nd. In example 1, yes you your itm % is higher but in example 2 your roi is higher and you are making more $, and thats what you want in sngs.

So do you see the point im trying to make? I would rather just win 2 out of lets say 8 sit n gos rather than take 3rd for times.

Is micro $1 buy-in? Because you make like 4 dollars if you win and 2 for second I think. If that was the case, you would be breaking even probably though I guess it depends on the exact spot that you finished at the smallest levels. Can you tell us what the buy-in and payouts are?

Hi guys,

Yes i totally see your point, and its not something I'd really thought of before but makes perfect sense . I'm currently playing the $1.20 buy-in and the payout is

3rd - $1.80
2nd - $2.70
1st - $4.50

Don't get me wrong I'd love to play the $3.40 or yes the $6.50 but my current BR wont allow that. My bankroll is $105, and i use a rule where i must have at least 50 buy-ins to play.

So as a rule of thumb, what would be a good ROI to have to consider long term profitability?

Thanks again

Good roi in sngs i would say about 10-15% after a lot of games. 20% or more is fantastic. I personally have 12% roi on full tilt after 2k sit n gos but my total profit is messed up because at one point i was doing 200$ heads up and had a bad run in them.

custo80 said:

So as a rule of thumb, what would be a good ROI to have to consider long term profitability?

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A good ROI is one that's a: positive, and b: higher than the percentage in rake you're paying for any given game

If you're playing $1.20 SnGs, for example, the rake is 20%. So an ROI that's higher than 20% will be profitable in the long run. Just remember to include the rake in your calculations (ie: remember that you're investing $1.20 per game, not $1)

A 35% ITM rate is an OK start, but it really depends which positions you finish in most often. If most of them are third places then you're probably going slowly backwards. If most of them are first places, you're probably alright.

custo,

35% ITM doesn't really mean anything. If you're getting ITM 35% of the time but most of them are 3rd places, you're losing money. If you have many more 1sts than 3rds, you're most likely winning.

Oz,

Generally the entry fee is used in the initial ROI calculation as part of the buyin, so regardless of the entry fee if someone is showing a 1% ROI, they're profiting overall (all other things being equal).

Here is a thread you might find useful/interesting.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

Oz,

Generally the entry fee is used in the initial ROI calculation as part of the buyin, so regardless of the entry fee if someone is showing a 1% ROI, they're profiting overall (all other things being equal).

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*facepalm*

Yeah, I did kinda make a mess of that bit, didn't I

For a better ROI while playing at the same stakes and level you might want to try UltimateBet. There isn't as many players and I find PS software smoother but the rake is only 10% compared to PS 20%. In the longrun the difference is huge.

I have been working pretty hard at getting the hang of SNGs by playing the mini tables over at PS. I've experimented with several different styles and I think have finally landed on one that works. I started with the $5 they gave me a little over a month ago and have played 53 tournys. So far:

ITM = 52%
ROI = 36.5% (better than quadrupled what they gave me).

I have also been keeping track of my style of play and comparing that to my ITM for my last 15 to see if I am improving, moving sideways, or going backwards. That's at 63%

I never though about the point about getting raped by the rake, but it is well taken. That extra $.10 equals $5.00 that I had to pay PS, which is almost 25% of my profit.

My goal is to polish this up a bit more, do some more learning, get some more experience, and then move up to higher stakes. Can anyone shed any light on this for me? I would really like to know the difference in play between the $1 and the $3 tables at PS. I am convinced that the ridiculousness of the play at the $1 tables is the only reason why I am making anything at all. In any given game, there aren't but maybe 3 people who have any clue what they are doing and can play solid, mistake-free poker for an hour at a time. Is that also true of the $3 tables? I know they have to be better up there, I just would like to know by how much.

In any given game, there aren't but maybe 3 people who have any clue what they are doing and can play solid, mistake-free poker for an hour at a time. Is that also true of the $3 tables? I know they have to be better up there, I just would like to know by how much.

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The play in the 3 dollar turbos at Stars is absolutely atrocious, I cant imagine it being much better than the 1 dollar S&Gs. If you have any idea what you are doing you should be able to profit, just be ready for some massive swings.

Ok, yeah, I guess it can't be all that much better. But what do you mean by massive swings? Can you elaborate on that?