1/2 and 2/5 NLHE cash games live - waiting for cards and making moves

so, i'd like to hear your opinions on what you guys value in full ring games at these stakes. I am of the opinion that patience is crucial and waiting for good cards and big hands to flop is one of the biggest virtues. it seems that there are always people that will pay you off with top pair or bottom two pair a lot of the time even with coordinated boards where you hold the nuts - just a pinch of trickiness can induce calls for value.
I hear so often that its not about what you are holding, its about outsmarting your opponent; you don't necessarily need good cards, etc. - play the man, not the cards. obviously, this is true up to a point - but up to what point do you think it stops? A lot of the pots you play in games like these have four or more people in preflop. obviously, you come to know your spots and you pick them wisely. other times you just know you are ahead or behind, or you know your opponent hates that card that just came off and you can push him off easy. I suppose the best players recognize these opportunities more often, and don't have to rely on the cards as much?

At this level live, you will often see people going to showdown with a single pair. Limping runs rampant, so you should tighten up, so that you have something better than just a marginal hand going into a flop 4 or 5 handed. This level isn't going to require any trickiness or over the top advanced moves, just ABC poker.

Yeah basically the same as $5 or $10NL online. If you can beat the micros on FTP, you should have no problem making a profit at $200NL live. Unless you have a hard time keeping track of pot size and/or other players stacks. Plus you have to have some sort of poker face. Another problem that might arise is not being properly rolled. Other than that if you got $1000 you aren't afraid to lose, it may not take too long to build a real BR.

If you aren't planning on grinding out a part or full-time job and just having some fun then don't worry about being rolled. Just play exactly the way you would in the micros and you are more likely to win than lose. Thinking about starting to grind at the casino myself, but haven't even a little to lose right now. Good luck whatever you plan is.

live games are high variance

baudib1 said:

live games are high variance

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Is this only because of the amounts of hands played? The amount of rake? Tipping the dealer?

Just curious is all. Besides tells I don't see too much difference besides reasons above. If it isn't any of those three, what makes it higher variance than online micros?

DetroitJimmy said:

Is this only because of the amounts of hands played? The amount of rake? Tipping the dealer?

Just curious is all. Besides tells I don't see too much difference besides reasons above. If it isn't any of those three, what makes it higher variance than online micros?

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Combination of many loose players who hate to fold and high average pot size resulting in more all-in showdowns in my experience. Even in a micro stakes game online a standard opening raise is 3BB. In a live game a standard opening raise is often 5BB or more and that raise can get multiple callers so stacks get in much easier.

As for OP's question, my advice is to remember that in a live game you have to think about more than just your cards. Maintaining a friendly atmosphere and keeping the fish happy / playing can sometimes be just as important as how you play the cards you're dealt. You've got much less choice in the games you play in live so if you find yourself a good one you want to keep it going as long as possible. Don't be the killjoy who sits there in sunglasses never moving and never talking and definitely don't be the person that critiques other people's play. Keep the fish happy and keep them playing.

really good points, OZ.
there are definitely more all-in showdowns, people who hate to fold and will go allin with AQ off suit or pocket 77s preflop in live games. the games can get heated some days after the guy to your right has bought in three times and is desperately trying to double up to break even.
actually, even if the guy to your right hasn't gone through a few buy-ins, he may still go all-in preflop with such marginal holdings. I call it tournament cash game syndrome, or televised poker shenanigans.
if you have watched the wsop on ESPN (which most of us have), people do these moves a lot in late stages of tourneys. But this has much to do with how their table has been playing (which is completely transparent to the viewer as they only show these all-in hands and none of the moves that lead up to these decisions), and simply the fact that it is a tournament.
This is very much why knowing what type of player you are up against is huge at these types of ring games. One guys preflop all-in means aces, but with the other guy it could mean tens or worse, or even AT suited. the same goes for post flop action on drawing boards - some will shove and others will play it more conservatively.
are you paying attention?