Zoom Poker - the Wild West

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enesem

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Has anyone had any success on Zoom ?

For a change, I have had a go at it, 2NL and 5NL. It's a very strange environment, it's the Wild West. I have to say, i am not doing well at it, not at all. I have played about 16k hands, but at a pretty consistent loss.

Here's what it seems to be:

Players will either set mine or play top pair hands. If you make one move post flop, they very quickly go to all in, then you have to decide whether to call or not.

It's a high variance game - and can get very unsettling, it's is very easy to lose one or two buy in's in a very quick space of time.

Tight is generally best, though very often weak hole cards improve and take you out - seemingly much more than normal play.

It's difficult to see if there is anything to be gained by playing Zoom - if you are trying to be a good all round player, is there a need to know how to play Zoom also - does it teach anything you can take into normal games ?

I am pretty much out of my comfort zone playing zoom, on the face of it it seems like it should be simpler. It isn't, though it does seem to show the value of tight ranges and spotting sets (not always successfully).

Mostly though, I lose, I guess I am pretty easy to read - I get consistently outdrawn, many times people get me on the river. (Variance, or bad play by me allowing it..?)

So, Here is the question.

In PT4, each of the stakes I play is shown in red or green, my personal goal is to try and play each stake back to profit. I am making progress in all levels apart from Zoom.

Is it worth carrying on (to become a better at the general game), or should I forget Zoom as an unwelcome distraction, as it's a standalone style of play unrelated to normal games ?

I would be really interested to hear experiences, especially if anyone can relate how they turned from losing to winning, what made the difference.

I forgot to add - I play on a Mac, so the PT HUD does not work in zoom - is it a mistake to play Zoom without the HUD ?

Thanks for any thoughts.
 
Fknife

Fknife

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enesem! Back to 2/5NL??? What are you doing here? I though you were crushing regs on 50NL :)

General strategy recommended by most people is:

- tight from early position (maybe make 3.5-4xbb with premium hand)
- not commiting entire stack with just a TPTK
- setmining/SC's from late positions
- blinds stealing by minraising from BTN/CO
- if a nit is not folding after cbet...he has it :)
- cbet raises generally indicate a set or some kind of a draw (depends on calling range and player)

As far as I know lots of people crushed 2NL this way.

I can't play without a HUD. It helps me with identifying players which allows me to adjust accordingly (some are stealing too much, playing fit/fold, calling only with pairs to setmine, some are overly aggressive, some are floating etc). Its a patience game.
 
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SwiftHax

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Well, I've had some success in Zoom, but that being said I'm below 3k hands. Generally I play very tight and raise all my hands the same. If I get 3-bet depending on the hand I will either fold connectors, call PP and raise AA KK AK. It's a different game, but very good for beginning players as you get to play in more spots and you can play the game tighter.
 
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enesem

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Hi Fknife.

Yep, 25NL (not 50) going very well. (currently 22bb/100) - seriously, I don't know why everyone was so hostile :>)

I am not playing 5NL or 10NL now, though I may go back later and try to turn the red to green, but I stand by my position that 25NL is a better game.

Anyhoo... Zoom...

I play zoom as a break form 25NL, sometimes I just prefer to step back from it.

Thanks for the advice. Do you think there is value in Zoom in as far as improving general playing technique ?

But, still trying to improve, hence Zoom questions.
 
Fknife

Fknife

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Yep, 25NL (not 50) going very well. (currently 22bb/100) - seriously, I don't know why everyone was so hostile :>)
I wasnt! I'm happy when sb is doing great.

Thanks for the advice. Do you think there is value in Zoom in as far as improving general playing technique ?

Hmmm on 2+2 forums, they claim that Zoom wont improve your game because its too volume orientated and automatic. You know, you hit a hand and you bet/bet/bet. If you face a resistance you evaluete whether your hand is close to nuts. If so you shove, otherwise you fold. Of course I exaggerate a bit but you get the point.
 
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Ubercroz

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Another problem with zoom style poker is that it amplifies styles because there is less table information. Meaning that people will tend to tighten up their tight game and loosen up their loose game. So you run into people on the outside edges of their play styles and it is more difficult to deal with because of the inclination towards these extremes.
 
Fknife

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One more thing. I noticed recently that there are alot more "fishes" in 6max 2NL Zoom. I mean, even one month ago when I was playing, I was constantly against red/purple ones (my color coding for nits/TAGs) and generally I had lots of guys colored. Now I see lots of new players (no colors, no stats), lots of limping, basically I feel like the game is much looser/softer. So either those regs moved up or... I finally got a chance to play with the "better" part of players pool :)
 
Karozi615

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I've had more success playing zoom than any other type of poker.
I play a highly aggressive style that IMO is conducive to zoom, basically when nobody has it I push harder than anyone else.
Also, I am an action junkie so I need more hands more quickly - it gives me an opportunity to outplay people in different spots.
Making money in zoom is the same as all types of poker, but there is some emphasis on a few things
1. bet sizing is critically important in zoom because you really need to get max value out of your big hands
2. don't be afraid to make big folds, a lot of players on zoom are really tight. win a lot of small pots and get into big pots with the nuts.

speaking on aggression, you have to understand position. Let me give you an example of a hand I played yesterday on zoom
Button opens to .75 cents
SB folds, Hero raises to 1.75$ with 9h2h
Button reraises to 6.75$
Hero tanks, 5bets to $13.00
Villain SNAP folds.
Note that we were both 200+ big blinds deep, that is why my bet sizing was literally perfect.
this is basically an example of why bet sizing is so important. If I 5bet shove in this spot I think I am more likely to get called than a small 5bet. The 5bet looks SO strong.
In zoom you really have to be 3betting in the blinds when late positions open, and don't be afraid to go to war (like I did above) against a competent player. That play above is not standard for me, it just became a leveling war (these things happen, even online)
 
Karozi615

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also what ubercroz said is interesting and I totally agree, I consider myself a LAGGY player and now that I think about it i'm even more loose in zoom than I am playing regular cash, it's an interesting observation for sure.
For me, this means that a good season could be a 3/4 buy in bankroll boost, and a bad session could be the same in the opposite direction
 
NCDaddy

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I have recently dabbled with Zoom/Zone. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster. Better analogy: I feel like I'm at an auction and get caught up in the bidding. Not sure if that makes sense. The constant action doesn't fit my style of play and it took a while to adjust (and a buy in or two). Third session was more successful but I still didn't feel comfortable with it. I did, however, find myself paying more attention b/c I had to. I don't know...I'll keep trying at it for a bit. GL in your endeavors.
 
Thinker_145

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When I started playing it I lost money as I was playing very loose and did not adjust to the fact that most people were playing very tight. I made the adjustment, recovered my loss and never played it again and don't plan to either. Its just so boring and luck factor is immense. And at least where I play there were less fish so that has a big bearing on my opinion on it.
 
NineLions

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Results of my experiment so far at $10nl Zoom, 6 max. All since the beginning of this year. 4 instances at a time, with a HUD.

I've moved more or less to Rush for the moment, for comparison. Rush plays worse than Zoom imo; more minraises and min 3 bets, ect.

I've played > 90% of my cash at full ring, where I'm pretty TAG, but I find more LAG better at 6 max.
 

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tazer

tazer

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I feel like I do fairly well in Zoom. I used to play alot of Rush on Full Tilt. I find that you have to be much more patient in this format than in any other format. Because of the high turnover of hands. Don't be afraid to lay down some big hands, but at the same time just as Karozi615 said people are willing to overbet with absolutely nothing because its easy to fold and move on. Hopefully you can get to winning in Zoom. Great way to get lots of hands in and try and maximize your profits. Good luck to you in your efforts!
 
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