Zone/Zoom poker wet boards with overpair

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quick

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I pretty much have been playing Zone poker exclusively (and some MTTs) but mostly 6 max Zone.

One spot I find myself in is holding a hand like AA and having someone come along for the flop which ends up showing 2 of same suit or a viable straight or even trips, quads, or Full House. Obviously if I'm first to act and bet , i risk getting raised by a set or two pair or even better, If I check in any position I risk giving a free card that then makes the hand for the villian.

So I had one case like this where the board was super dangerous. I bet 3/4 pot, guy calls, turn comes I bet pot not sure where I'm at, guy calls. River gives flush possibility and also a pair on board. I put out a feeler bet and guy flat calls my AA with his K5s for the rivered flush. So villian happily called my bets on a board that was 6s6h8h, 10s, 4h. on every street to catch.

So what would you have done? Bet more preflop, overbet the pot on flop? Or just chalked this up to someone gambling and chasing "just because"?
 
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6bet me

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I play a lot of 6-max zoom on pokerstars.

My general advice is this: on wet boards, you want to be making large bets with overpairs and top pair hands, so you'd usually bet around 80% pot on the flop and turn. Once the river comes, you need to assess whether most draws completed or not. If most draws completed, I'll typically have a bet/fold mentality where I bet about 50% pot and fold to a raise. If most draws busted, then you need to assess whether your opponent is likely to take a stab at the pot or just give up (how aggressive or passive they are). If they are passive, then I'll generally just retain my bet/fold mentality, but if they're somewhat aggressive, then I'll often check-call the river instead, to induce a bluff. This is if you're out of position btw. If you're in position, then your decision becomes a little bit easier.
 
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Dan Lucas

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I play a lot of 6-max zoom on PokerStars.

My general advice is this: on wet boards, you want to be making large bets with overpairs and top pair hands, so you'd usually bet around 80% pot on the flop and turn. Once the river comes, you need to assess whether most draws completed or not. If most draws completed, I'll typically have a bet/fold mentality where I bet about 50% pot and fold to a raise. If most draws busted, then you need to assess whether your opponent is likely to take a stab at the pot or just give up (how aggressive or passive they are). If they are passive, then I'll generally just retain my bet/fold mentality, but if they're somewhat aggressive, then I'll often check-call the river instead, to induce a bluff. This is if you're out of position btw. If you're in position, then your decision becomes a little bit easier.

I agree with you Matthew. In the example, my experience says this opponent was chasing a marginal hand because he didn't care enough about losing, or didn't know enough to know he should fold. Sometimes, opponents are just oblivious.
 
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I play a lot of 6-max zoom on PokerStars.

My general advice is this: on wet boards, you want to be making large bets with overpairs and top pair hands, so you'd usually bet around 80% pot on the flop and turn. Once the river comes, you need to assess whether most draws completed or not. If most draws completed, I'll typically have a bet/fold mentality where I bet about 50% pot and fold to a raise. If most draws busted, then you need to assess whether your opponent is likely to take a stab at the pot or just give up (how aggressive or passive they are). If they are passive, then I'll generally just retain my bet/fold mentality, but if they're somewhat aggressive, then I'll often check-call the river instead, to induce a bluff. This is if you're out of position btw. If you're in position, then your decision becomes a little bit easier.

Thanks this is pretty solid advice.


I agree with you Matthew. In the example, my experience says this opponent was chasing a marginal hand because he didn't care enough about losing, or didn't know enough to know he should fold. Sometimes, opponents are just oblivious.

I think this often about most players. I had KK in two instances last night where I lost to garbage hands that were happy to lose their stack on a gamble. First hand I get into a betting battle and we get to flop 3 9 4 rainbow board with my KK. I bet pot, guy shoves, I call. He has 22, he's all in and gets turn A river 5 for runner runner straight. Next KK hand I bet standard raise, get reraised so I make it 20x BB, guy insta calls, board is all hearts, I have no hearts. Guy check, I bet pot, he shoves, I have to call at this point, he has 810 hearts. My thinking is why are you calling a 20xBB raise preflop with 810s? I've seen much worse too, I think a lot of opponents don't care and/or are oblivious. I've seen players over 150BB deep get it all in on a turn and they turn over a drawing hand that has 1 out and sometimes get it on river. Obviously they don't care and we want gamblers like that, but man it baffles you when someone gets stacks in or happily calls large bets to river looking for a miracle card. Like no concept of pot odds, value, or chances of hitting, it's just a gamble for em.
 
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Well, players that call pot sized turn bets on paired boards with a flush draw is our bread and butter so say nice hand and move on. No need to wonder what you did wrong.
 
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People chase all the time, it's up to you whether you think they will call a shove on the flop or not. If they are a player that likes to gamble, then shoving is a great play because you will always hold a ton of equity especially if you are holding the ace of the suit that is on the board.

In any other scenario as long as you are making his pot odds worse than 35% then you are printing money from them.

For the hand you describe you made the right play on the flop, right play on the turn and probably lost the minimum on the river so you played the hand fine. Dude probably would have called a shove on the flop with that exact hand anyway so the result would be the same or worse.
 
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yjt93

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On wet boards I usually just bet 2/3 + 1 click to the right. alot of them would chase and some of them would actually chase twice. put a note on those players and exploit them.
 
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Well, players that call pot sized turn bets on paired boards with a flush draw is our bread and butter so say nice hand and move on. No need to wonder what you did wrong.

Very true. I love your photo.

People chase all the time, it's up to you whether you think they will call a shove on the flop or not. If they are a player that likes to gamble, then shoving is a great play because you will always hold a ton of equity especially if you are holding the ace of the suit that is on the board.

In any other scenario as long as you are making his pot odds worse than 35% then you are printing money from them.

For the hand you describe you made the right play on the flop, right play on the turn and probably lost the minimum on the river so you played the hand fine. Dude probably would have called a shove on the flop with that exact hand anyway so the result would be the same or worse.

Thanks. I figured I played it fine but just looking to confirm what you basically said.

On wet boards I usually just bet 2/3 + 1 click to the right. alot of them would chase and some of them would actually chase twice. put a note on those players and exploit them.

It's hard if not impossible to tag/note players on Zone poker on Bovada but I get your point.
 
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Dis1plina

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I think you played the hand fine. Board was quite wet so large protection bets seem good. You also get value from mid-high pocket pairs, standard line of play. If opponent is known to be very fishy you can consider check-folding but usually a bet-fold line is nice, you can get value from worse. When reviewing a hand you have to ask yourself: is this a profitable play? If i replay this hand 1000 times will i expect to make money? The answer is yes. Around 76% of the time. Being results orientated is dangerous, my advice is to think of the longterm as much as possible.
 
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