Which is worse, bad call or a bad fold????

Which is worse??????

  • Bad call

    Votes: 6 85.7%
  • Bad fold

    Votes: 1 14.3%

  • Total voters
    7
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

public static void
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Total posts
6,188
Chips
0
I realize that this is probably learning poker but the question i want to ask is related to cash game and long term losing money with making bad decisions...

I have been thinking about it for a while now and i just want some more experienced opinions... I see that this, as everything in poker is relative from situation to situation but lately i have been analyzing my hand history and i think that making a fold what turns out to be a winning hand is less harmful that calling with a hand that can be dominated. Now im not talking about hand where you fold on early street and the hand didnt end there and later streets would improve your hand to nuts, no. Im talking about you folding a winning hand and winner show you a weaker hand than yours, of course having in mind that you dont have stats/hud on your opponent and relatively small or no notes and info... Is it good way of thinking that fold is a good when there is a lot hands that can beat you, doesn't madder to what you fold?? Also i saw that calling with the second best hand or when you think you are beat but you just need proof took additional money from your BR...

Now in order to not making this tldr ill just ask now, bad call or bad fold which is worse???

btw i talked with myself about this in my logg in BBC section so if someone wanna see longer version, it is one of the latest posts there... :D

Any input is appreciated!!!
 
steveiam

steveiam

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Total posts
3,625
Chips
0
Which one cost's you the most money. If you are losing more money making bad calls then you have your answer.
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
i mean idk why you would fixate on what is worse in a hypothetical sense when you could spend that mental energy to focus on playing better

plus define bad:

Bad knowing there range?

Bad by being wrong when we call but possibly be a correct longterm call?

To answer you a little bit, bad call is worse bc EV if fold is 0 so all you lose is the opportunity cost which could be very high, whereas a bad call is -EV and you lose some possible opportunity cost as well because br isn't infinite
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

public static void
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Total posts
6,188
Chips
0
i mean idk why you would fixate on what is worse in a hypothetical sense when you could spend that mental energy to focus on playing better

plus define bad:

Bad knowing there range?

Bad by being wrong when we call but possibly be a correct longterm call?

To answer you a little bit, bad call is worse bc EV if fold is 0 so all you lose is the opportunity cost which could be very high, whereas a bad call is -EV and you lose some possible opportunity cost as well because br isn't infinite

I see your point but about limiting the bad plays but they happen, and my thought was when im at the tough spot where my hand can be dominated by a lot of hands it is less damage to fold to a worse hand than to pay and gamble...
As i said i dont have tracker/hut so it is not easy for me to think in ranges, i was thinking of a long therm call on a tough spot is a -ev in compared to long term fold in same situation, exactly what you have said in a last part...
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
you don't need a tracker to think in terms of ranges
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

public static void
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Total posts
6,188
Chips
0
you don't need a tracker to think in terms of ranges

that is true but it is lot less accurate... at least the way i think of it in compare of how i would do it if i have tracker, which ill buy really really soon (promise to myself ;) )
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
not really, you always will have assumptions and you can't take frequencies from HUD as a static thing it can often be out of context of who the person was playing against
 
Akorps

Akorps

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Total posts
450
Chips
0
bad call is worse :)

if you make a bad fold, that just encourages the bluffer to try again, so you may get your chips back later, or even stack him :)

plus, if you make a bad call, it may put you on tilt :)

if you make a bad fold, you may not even know it :)
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
dont forget, EV of fold is always 0 on a street pre street bases
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
1,971
Chips
0
I think bad call is worse than bad fold, because when you make bad call you can see that and it can affect your game later, if you make bad fold you won't even know it. Money saved are money earned! :)
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Total posts
7,363
Awards
16
Chips
13
Money you don't lose is equally as important as the money you win.
In reality what is the difference between a bad call that can cost you your whole stack or a bad fold that can cost you winning a whole stack.
The poll is meaningless.
As has been pointed out you see the result of a bad call but the cost of the bad fold isn't so obvious but both are equal.
Generally people want to call because that is how you make money, no one sits down and plays wanting to fold!
So it makes sense that players make more bad calls than bad folds.
All you need to concentrate on is reducing both the number of your bad calls and bad folds and making the best decisions.
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
Money you don't lose is equally as important as the money you win.
In reality what is the difference between a bad call that can cost you your whole stack or a bad fold that can cost you winning a whole stack.
The poll is meaningless.
As has been pointed out you see the result of a bad call but the cost of the bad fold isn't so obvious but both are equal.
Generally people want to call because that is how you make money, no one sits down and plays wanting to fold!
So it makes sense that players make more bad calls than bad folds.
All you need to concentrate on is reducing both the number of your bad calls and bad folds and making the best decisions.
That is what I was hinting at in the beginning and the term is opportunity cost
 
F

funa84

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Total posts
7
Chips
0
If we have to choose between this two bad things, than we will choose that one, which affect our purse less than the other one. So that means "bad fold" is a better choice, because we dont loose money. But for the real poker player isnt important whether he wins/looses a LITTLE money. What irritates me the most is the "bad fold", if I have a 100% winner hand (poker, straight flush) and the other players go all-in :D
(sorry for my bad english)
 
F

funa84

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Total posts
7
Chips
0
If we have to choose between this two bad things, than we will choose that one, which affect our purse less than the other one. So that means "bad fold" is a better choice, because we dont loose money. But for the real poker player isnt important whether he wins/looses a LITTLE money. What irritates me the most is the "bad fold", if I have a 100% winner hand (poker, straight flush) and the other players go all-in :D
(sorry for my bad english)

i have a good tipp against bad fold, play Stud or 5 card draw and you will never know , what you really had.:)
 
skrsh76

skrsh76

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Total posts
993
Chips
0
bad call is worse :)

if you make a bad fold, that just encourages the bluffer to try again, so you may get your chips back later, or even stack him :)

plus, if you make a bad call, it may put you on tilt :)

if you make a bad fold, you may not even know it :)

This is exactly my thought.. thinking alternatively.. you can make more than a few bad folds and find better opportunities later but once you make a couple of bad calls your BR or chips in tournaments will be lost and will make it more difficult for your build BR / Tournament chips back up.
 
J

jj20002

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
777
Chips
0
gauge in number of chips one loses when calling (in a losing hand) or when folding (in a winning hand), but also one wants to call for information when the number of chips involved is not high, so let´s say there is a villain one doesn´t know any about and he is winning pots without showdown, then time to time, if is cheap one could call to see the villain cards and to get info about him (maybe he is bluffing or maybe he is in a winning streak, but this info will help one to adjust later decisions)
 
G

GWU73

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Total posts
785
Chips
0
The further into the hand the more your mistake costs, whether it is a fold or a call so I would prefer to make a bad fold on the flop, than either choice on the turn or river.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Total posts
2,665
Awards
1
Chips
7
Yeah, its all realitve to the specific hands.

You cannot blanket state that all bad calls are worse than bad folds, or vise versa.
 
gtothec

gtothec

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
54
Chips
0
This may be a terrible thing to say but I genuinely feel that there is no such thing as a "bad fold"
If you believe (after analysing all information available) that you are beaten, even if his range is ridic wide then it's always a fold.
Wait for a stronger hand/better spot and then make the call.

If anyone thinks differently plz tell me as I'm always trying to learn
Thanks
 
Folding in Poker
Top