Will changing my game improve it or destroy it?

Swear Engine

Swear Engine

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I've been playing a few years now. I generally have a decent ROI but i have a low technical knowledge of the game. I tend to play by 'feel' and would describe my game as 'Fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants poker'. My question is do you think it's possible to gradually add elements to my game without wrecking it completely or if i'm to become a more serious player do i need to start from scratch playing Play Money or micro micro micro limits and implementing a more regimented scholarly approach?
 
PokerVic

PokerVic

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An article I read by Mike Caro said it best. I can't find the article, so I'll paraphrase.

Basically, you need to know your style. Whether it be profitable or not, you have to establish your style to the point where you can get back to it. Then, you make changes to your play... just a tweak here or there. If your game gets better as a result, great. If not, you have to know how to get back to where you were. Too many players have a profitable game, make one or two changes, then become losing players.

Caro compared it to a buoy in the ocean, I think. Unless you can get back to your winning ways, you might drift endlessly, overcompensating and trying to change too much, until your game doesn't resemble your old style in any respect.

So, I'd say create the foundation of your playing style. Play a lot, so that you can easily fall back to this style whenever necessary. This is where experience is so important. Then, when you make changes or add "moves" to your repertoire do it carefully. Don't shift several points of your game at once, because you won't be able to tell which one had the most affect (positive or negative) on your game.

For example, "Joe" is a standard nit. He only plays the top ten hands, but plays them strongly. He's doing ok, but he relies on better than average cards to do well in a tournament, and his results could be way better. Instead of shifting to a full-on loose-aggressive style overnight, Joe starts raising unopened pots in position with less-than-premium hands. (small pocket pairs, high suited connectors) Then, once he has played a lot of poker, and is sure that this has improved his game (and his ROI has increased), he starts to 3-bet light against certain players in certain situations; something the old Joe would never have done. But, if at any point his game deteriorates, Joe has to dial back to his last winning style, and examine why the change didn't work.

The thing is, people do this unconsciously. It's a fundamental part of learning something new. But, sometimes just being aware of what you're changing, and why you're changing it, can make the transition from "good player" to "better player" that much easier.

Now I'm sure someone will post the real article, which will make much more sense than this. :D
 
Divebitch

Divebitch

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Basically, you need to know your style. Whether it be profitable or not, you have to establish your style to the point where you can get back to it.

Don't shift several points of your game at once, because you won't be able to tell which one had the most affect (positive or negative) on your game. Great point.

Now I'm sure someone will post the real article, which will make much more sense than this. :D

It all makes very good sense to me. Like the OP, I'd probably also contend I was a 'Fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants' player. But I'm not sure what my style is. :p It can change from hand to hand (can be a good thing), from table to table (also good), or just depending on my mood (not good).

All I can say is that learning from a well-respected teacher (like Harrington) is always good. Sometimes I'm not even aware of potential leaks in my game until I see the examples right there in front of me, and finally understand why the move I would have probably made is wrong.
 
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Bobmurphy07

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I can say from personal experience that I've slowly been adding different elements to my game instead of just starting over at lower limits completely. And it's worked just fine, my results are slowly improving more and more. I think the important thing to note about adding an element to your game, is that there is a right and a wrong time to make a certain move you learned, so as long as you are using that move correctly, it doesn't matter that you don't know all the moves out there, the fact is you've added a weapon to your arsenal and you're now more dangerous.
 
lektrikguy

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Adding elements to your game is how you grow. We all start out rookies and learn by getting beat,reading, studying, and watching others get played. It's the only way we get better. I have to say that since joining Cardschat my game has tightened up and I thank all of the regulars for their posts and critiques I have spent so much time reading. I have also spent a great deal of time on Full Tilt academy learning too, as well as all the books I bought.
 
Swear Engine

Swear Engine

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Thanks for the input.:) I think i have a weird self-regulatory thing that happens if i start to change my style too much or overthink it. I temporarily lose the urge to play. It's like my subconscious is telling me..'time for a break fella'. So i leave poker alone for a few days and then return reinvigorated.
My game isn't supertight but i'm not a total fish. I mean i obviously do fish at times but i think i have a reasonable grasp on when to try it. Not always but quite often. On the whole i'd say i was fairly tight, i can be very patient, eapecially in tourneys. But i do need the 'fun' element to keep my game working. I need to make the odd cheeky raise or call with absolute bobbins. And mixing things up, within reason, is obviously a good thing.

All that said, i do intend to study some technical aspects of the game over the coming months. I will be careful not to change things too much too soon though. And as PokerVic said i will make sure i can get back to the game that has served me pretty well up to this point.
Cheers.
 
Blazing_Saddler

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An article I read by Mike Caro said it best. I can't find the article, so I'll paraphrase.

Basically, you need to know your style. Whether it be profitable or not, you have to establish your style to the point where you can get back to it. Then, you make changes to your play... just a tweak here or there. If your game gets better as a result, great. If not, you have to know how to get back to where you were. Too many players have a profitable game, make one or two changes, then become losing players.

Caro compared it to a buoy in the ocean, I think. Unless you can get back to your winning ways, you might drift endlessly, overcompensating and trying to change too much, until your game doesn't resemble your old style in any respect.

So, I'd say create the foundation of your playing style. Play a lot, so that you can easily fall back to this style whenever necessary. This is where experience is so important. Then, when you make changes or add "moves" to your repertoire do it carefully. Don't shift several points of your game at once, because you won't be able to tell which one had the most affect (positive or negative) on your game.

For example, "Joe" is a standard nit. He only plays the top ten hands, but plays them strongly. He's doing ok, but he relies on better than average cards to do well in a tournament, and his results could be way better. Instead of shifting to a full-on loose-aggressive style overnight, Joe starts raising unopened pots in position with less-than-premium hands. (small pocket pairs, high suited connectors) Then, once he has played a lot of poker, and is sure that this has improved his game (and his ROI has increased), he starts to 3-bet light against certain players in certain situations; something the old Joe would never have done. But, if at any point his game deteriorates, Joe has to dial back to his last winning style, and examine why the change didn't work.

The thing is, people do this unconsciously. It's a fundamental part of learning something new. But, sometimes just being aware of what you're changing, and why you're changing it, can make the transition from "good player" to "better player" that much easier.

Now I'm sure someone will post the real article, which will make much more sense than this. :D

I have to say, that was a really good post.
 
R

rigmarole

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First post here... I've been playing for a couple of years now, I don't think your game ever stays the same, change is constant.

Through reading, studying, paying attention at the table, we learn things and at one point or another, we use them.

Will changing your game destroy it? Probably so, the reason being is that when most people make changes, even small ones they don't stop, and give serious consideration to what they are going to change and why.

Instead of changing up your game, I think the most import thing you can do to improve your ROI is pay attention and learn. It doesnt matter if you are an intuitive player or a cognizant one who thinks through every detail, if you take the time to be aware of things, and learn, the amount of information you have to pull from (weather through cognizant action or intuition) grows.

The 2 most important things you can do to help in regards to paying attention is to keep detailed and honest, records. Take the time to look at your records frequently. At a minimum you should have 2 record books. The first one is your bankroll ledger, where you keep track of your bankroll profit and losses etc. The second is a journal, where you write things down about hands you played, how you played and how your opponent played, even in hands that you weren't involved in. Before you start your session, take a couple of minutes to review your previous sessions' journal entry.
 
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TheDoc

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Seems like every time I read a poker book or advice on cards chat my play goes to sh*t because I'm so excited about the new insight, the basic poker skills go out the window. (Note to self: don't keep doing that) :)
 
jj48fan

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I must be reading the same books you are. I have had the same problem in the past.

I still take in new info but try not to change my game very much after reading.
 
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