Why is it so difficult to drop a Top Pair?

wsbar

wsbar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2017
Total posts
1,097
Chips
0
There is no shame in giving up your letters. Many beginners continue to bet or pay knowing that the chance of winning is minimal. Sometimes there is Flush Drow on the board, sometimes there is Straight Drow on the Board, it's still like that, I can not fold my Top Pair or Two Pair.A very important skill for beginning Texas Hold'em players is the ability to read the board. This means being able to look at the community cards on the table and calculate the strongest hands possible:deal:.
 
Z

zavvt

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Total posts
30
Chips
0
yes i know, ive lost so many times not folding the top pair..
 
Sil3ntness

Sil3ntness

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Total posts
1,171
Chips
0
Usually on average two pair is the winning showdown hand. The key to getting to showdown is playing pot sizes based on the strength of your hand.

Stack to pot ratio is very important when betting or calling bets. If you are playing for 100 Big Blind stacks and you only have a decent pair you are probably most likely in trouble unless Villain is a maniac and likes to bet with air or missed draws.

Like wsbar said, you definitely have to read the board when calling river bets. Did the flush/straight draws miss then you can use your hand as a bluff catcher. On super wet boards, it is not bad to just give up and let them win the pot. Relative hand strength is very important the bigger the pot becomes.
 
wsbar

wsbar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2017
Total posts
1,097
Chips
0
Usually on average two pair is the winning showdown hand. The key to getting to showdown is playing pot sizes based on the strength of your hand.

Stack to pot ratio is very important when betting or calling bets. If you are playing for 100 Big Blind stacks and you only have a decent pair you are probably most likely in trouble unless Villain is a maniac and likes to bet with air or missed draws.

Like wsbar said, you definitely have to read the board when calling river bets. Did the flush/straight draws miss then you can use your hand as a bluff catcher. On super wet boards, it is not bad to just give up and let them win the pot. Relative hand strength is very important the bigger the pot becomes.




My Bro, is this kind of answer that appeals to any beginner, I do not know how to play very well, but I also recognize that I'm not the worst, if I keep in touch with you and you help me, I'm sure be playing great tournaments.
 
A

Alexsunshine229

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Total posts
39
Chips
0
So true there is no shame in dropping top pair even though it's a decent hand.
 
F

Fastone2

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Total posts
565
Chips
0
Sometimes it is the best that I obtain.
 
Douglas Gonzaga

Douglas Gonzaga

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 1, 2016
Total posts
328
Chips
0
I've left so many times with AA, KK because I was sure that I was losing and did not make it out of the tournament in those moments.
 
wsbar

wsbar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2017
Total posts
1,097
Chips
0
I need to acquire this ability, it also happens to me, I have AA in my hands, but it is notorious that I am losing due to the community cards and aggressiveness of the opponent, but even so I can not quit and finish leaving the tournament early.
 
Garfield52

Garfield52

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Total posts
693
Awards
2
Chips
28
i have lost with kk and AA many times to people that should not even have been in the hand let alone stay for the river card. been beaten by river rats many times. sometimes better to go with JQ or so ,
 
koadyawn

koadyawn

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Total posts
198
Chips
0
it's wishful thinking. We find any excuse to not fold..."he's overvaluing his top pair" "he's messing with me" "he is on a missed draw"...
 
masik6

masik6

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Total posts
1,044
Awards
6
Chips
0
ответ

I rarely throw high pair and all because with such pairs like AA or KK I play once I push them differently nerazryvno so as not to get into an awkward situation so I don't have to choose .
 
D

Dan Lucas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Total posts
475
Chips
0
You have made the exact point about board texture. You have to be able to evaluate what ranges your opponents play and how the betting has gone. Losing with KK or AA against donk players is all too common, even if you play the hand correctly. Unless you have the nuts, anything can happen with 5 community cards. But to be a very good player, you have to be able to fold. Sometimes you get bluffed off the best hand, sometimes you make a good read and save a bundle. There is always another hand when you fold.
 
A

Actor247

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 11, 2015
Total posts
11
Chips
0
There is no shame in giving up your letters. Many beginners continue to bet or pay knowing that the chance of winning is minimal. Sometimes there is Flush Drow on the board, sometimes there is Straight Drow on the Board, it's still like that, I can not fold my Top Pair or Two Pair.A very important skill for beginning Texas Hold'em players is the ability to read the board. This means being able to look at the community cards on the table and calculate the strongest hands possible:deal:.

I totally agree with his statement actually..But it's very rare I fold my top pair depending on what it is..But sometimes you can read your opponents betting pattern to find out if they have top pair beat..such as an over pair..but yes you definitely need to be able to look at the board and find out whats the best possible hand out there..
 
evildoesit2003

evildoesit2003

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Total posts
1,922
Awards
1
Chips
9
It is always exciting to get dealt a top pair, that is why it is so hard to lay it down, just remember any 2 little pair can beat you is the way I try to think about it.
 
R

Rational Madman

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Total posts
2,478
Chips
0
My Bro, is this kind of answer that appeals to any beginner, I do not know how to play very well, but I also recognize that I'm not the worst, if I keep in touch with you and you help me, I'm sure be playing great tournaments.
This is the cash game area of the forums, why are you asking about tournament play?
 
Andrei Lisovets

Andrei Lisovets

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Total posts
60
Chips
0
Probably any player preflop, or when not fold, AA, KK, but after the flop, you need to calculate, discard cards or further press the opponent, depending on the bet, and the cards that fell on the flop, and it does not matter, the cash game is or tournament.
 
wsbar

wsbar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2017
Total posts
1,097
Chips
0
Excuse me, my nobleman, I'm going to police myself to avoid this kind of unpleasant situation. And I think you're wrong, I'm asking why it's so difficult to drop a Top Pair or an overcard, regardless of tournament or cashgame.
 
Last edited:
Dorugremon

Dorugremon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Total posts
456
Awards
1
Chips
19
Many beginners continue to bet or pay knowing that the chance of winning is minimal. Sometimes there is Flush Drow on the board, sometimes there is Straight Drow on the Board, it's still like that, I can not fold my Top Pair or Two Pair.

Overplaying TPTK or a big overpair is a fish play that you see all the time. It's understandable: you miss ~two out of three flops. Then you flop that pair, and a lone pair is the majority of what you hit when you hit. YEAY! Now you can play!

It's not so bad if you're playing FLHE. Your TPTK takes a prat fall and all it costs you is a few bets. If it happens at no-limit, it can cost you your whole stack. Again, that's NBD if your opponent is short: if he wins he doesn't cripple your stack. If you break him, you can either free up his seat for a more well-heeled fish or make him reload. If stacks are deep, you want to keep that pot as small as possible, and if your opponent doesn't want to co-operate, then it's best to just let it go. There will be other possibilities down the line, but only if you have a stack.

Folding TPTK or pocket rockets is not an easy thing to do, but Poker itself isn't easy. If it were, then everybody would win. It doesn't work that way.
 
D

dejan85

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
712
Chips
0
if I have good kicker for example AJ,AND ON flope is Jack top,almoust I would never fold.....only set if someone have in my oppinion...
 
J

Jordenandrew

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Total posts
144
Chips
0
I think it's knowing they might be bluffing most of the time I catch players bluffing trying to steal the pot but if you have the chips to call and have some to lose I would call.
 
wsbar

wsbar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2017
Total posts
1,097
Chips
0
Overplaying TPTK or a big overpair is a fish play that you see all the time. It's understandable: you miss ~two out of three flops. Then you flop that pair, and a lone pair is the majority of what you hit when you hit. YEAY! Now you can play!

It's not so bad if you're playing FLHE. Your TPTK takes a prat fall and all it costs you is a few bets. If it happens at no-limit, it can cost you your whole stack. Again, that's NBD if your opponent is short: if he wins he doesn't cripple your stack. If you break him, you can either free up his seat for a more well-heeled fish or make him reload. If stacks are deep, you want to keep that pot as small as possible, and if your opponent doesn't want to co-operate, then it's best to just let it go. There will be other possibilities down the line, but only if you have a stack.

Folding TPTK or pocket rockets is not an easy thing to do, but Poker itself isn't easy. If it were, then everybody would win. It doesn't work that way.



This information I will file, it is always good to review interesting subject.
 
S

Salavat Kozhakhmetov

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Total posts
1,137
Awards
5
Chips
18
it's very hard sometimes to be able to do it a different way to play poker not learn,a good player especially one which can be reset at any time a good card!
 
Gulas

Gulas

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Total posts
93
Chips
0
i have lost with kk and AA many times to people that should not even have been in the hand let alone stay for the river card. been beaten by river rats many times. sometimes better to go with JQ or so ,

I wonder how much of selective bias this statement is. I win most of my KK and AA. Sure, it sucks to lose with the strongests hands in play, but math and odds are in favour of these.

Though these are strong hands, they don't win everything. That's where reading your opponent comes in to play. If you read them well, it becomes easier to drop a top pair.

Cheers!
 
SydTheCat

SydTheCat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Total posts
322
Awards
1
Chips
0
if I have good kicker for example AJ,AND ON flope is Jack top,almoust I would never fold.....only set if someone have in my oppinion...



Don't always fall in love that either. Seen that beat many times with higher pair.
 
GRIN281289

GRIN281289

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Total posts
1,967
Awards
15
Chips
20
I often have no luck with top pair, it's not hard to reset
 
Top