Why am I Losing money from the Big Blind??

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Truffle Shuffle

Truffle Shuffle

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After reading other posts on here i've recently downloaded HEM and have started looking at my stats. i thought i was doing ok overall but this stat is bothering me.

the report shows that i win money from every seat except the BB where i have lost -40bb/100. Its across 4k hands in that seat, which i know is only a small history but i've not been able to play much recently (pregnant wife with slipped disk is not always accomodating after i've had a long day at work! LOL).

my overall stats are 9.97bb/100 but i'm guessing that this problem will be affecting this figure somewhat, am i right?

My question is, should I be winning money from that seat also? or is it expected that you should lose from this seat due to having to post the BB? Most of the time the loss seems to be from folding a crap hand to a raise in front, while others are with checking a small pair and folding to a big bet on the flop.

Are there any other useful stats that i can look at that may help reduce this loss?

any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Truffle.
 
No Brainer

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Over the long run you will always expect to be losing money from the big blind.

I think if you are winning money from either blind you are probably playing too many hands from these positions. These are obviously the worst two seats on the table position wise so we should be tightening up our range considerably. This means we are folding more and giving away our blind.

Rather than thinking that since we have already put money in the pot from the blinds so its OK to put a little more in to see a flop I like to think of the blinds as a sort of tax to see the full set of 9 hands you will get in the orbit.
 
slycbnew

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over any sizable sample, all players lose money in the BB.
 
thepokerkid123

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Your overall profit from the BB will be negative, your results from that seat without blind should be very positive.
 
Pokerstudent

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Like they all said, it should be generally negative. You have the worst position. If you have a choice b/w the button and the BB, you take the BB everytime. Cause it's easier to profit from that position. Conversely, the BB is where you lose the most.

If you are profiting from other positions, then you should be okay.

GL
 
Truffle Shuffle

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thanks for the responses,

i hoped that what you all said would be the answer and that losing money from this seat is the norm, so i'm glad that i'm not doing anything too wrong !

thanks v much

Truffle
 
atlantafalcons0

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Like they all said, it should be generally negative. You have the worst position. If you have a choice b/w the button and the BB, you take the BB everytime. Cause it's easier to profit from that position. Conversely, the BB is where you lose the most.

If you are profiting from other positions, then you should be okay.

GL

Actually I would take the button every time I think....

:)
 
Pascal-lf

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I think it's a mistype and he would agree with you :)
 
BelgoSuisse

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stats are obviously not converged. You should be losing money from SB too.
 
forsakenone

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nice going with the 9.97BB/100 that's huuuuge regardless of what limit you play, make sure you know about it because most likely it won't stay like this in the next x0.000 hands. and yeah, i have been losing money from BB and SB too.
 
Truffle Shuffle

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stats are obviously not converged. You should be losing money from SB too.

i'm not sure what you mean by 'not converged' but when i use HEM and sort the report by 'winnings' and 'position', it shows i make from every seat except the BB. i would guess that i'm doing the report right.

i can now understand that we should be losing money from the BB and poss the SB but i'm not losing from the SB at the mo.

forsakenone
thanks for the support, was on a really good run and then ran cold and still am running cold, but have managed to claw back some of the buyins i recently lost, not by my good play but by others' really bad play mostly. i notice that playing at different times helps - it seems to go particularly soft about 10-12 pm, though playing at these times is hard for me as my beautiful pregnant wife likes me to spend time with her instead of the laptop !
 
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You should be losing money from every position. If the other seats are positive you are not playing at the appropriate stake level.

Continue moving up in stakes until ALL positions show a loss.

Good job on trying to seal up the non loss leaks you have.
 
Truffle Shuffle

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You should be losing money from every position. If the other seats are positive you are not playing at the appropriate stake level.

Continue moving up in stakes until ALL positions show a loss.

Good job on trying to seal up the non loss leaks you have.

They have sarcasm over here in Sheffield as well you know. :rolleyes: LOL
 
brank

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"not converged" means that you have such a small sample size its unrealistic to think your stats will stay that way.

its like this. if you have 20 hands on a guy and he has a VPIP/PFR of 35/30 you might think hes a real maniac. but then you play another 100 hands with him and his stats drop waaay down cause he hasnt played a hand since the fisrt 20. then his stats have "converged" to what is a realistic representation of his style.
 
Truffle Shuffle

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"not converged" means that you have such a small sample size its unrealistic to think your stats will stay that way.

its like this. if you have 20 hands on a guy and he has a VPIP/PFR of 35/30 you might think hes a real maniac. but then you play another 100 hands with him and his stats drop waaay down cause he hasnt played a hand since the fisrt 20. then his stats have "converged" to what is a realistic representation of his style.

Ahh, rite, thanks for that.

yeah, its a small sample size, i know. but i thought that advice early on might stop a potential leak early on. The info gained from HEM is a bit overwhelming so when i spotted this i thought i'd ask what the norm was. I think i'm doing ok so far though:D
 
tomh7795

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Think about how high your bb/100 would be if you lost a little less from the blinds. I think your losing to much and you would be doing a lot better if a lost a little less. Sure you are losing from the bb and sb but not quite as much as you are losing. I think you might be calling to many raises from the bb. I think every decent sample size has the bb and sb losing.
 
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Over the long run you will always expect to be losing money from the big blind.

I think if you are winning money from either blind you are probably playing too many hands from these positions. These are obviously the worst two seats on the table position wise so we should be tightening up our range considerably. This means we are folding more and giving away our blind.

Rather than thinking that since we have already put money in the pot from the blinds so its OK to put a little more in to see a flop I like to think of the blinds as a sort of tax to see the full set of 9 hands you will get in the orbit.

Very good explanation. That's what I try to tell some people when they get to aggressive with their blinds. It's crazy sometimes with the re-steal bluffs or shoves.
 
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though his stats have not converged over this obviously extremely small sample size I would still say that -40\100 bb is pretty bad. you are playing way too much from EP... what's your vpip in every position?
 
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Right, tell us your VPIP from the blinds (both of them). I am losing 6BB/100 from the big blind and 8 from the small blind over 30K hands, overall winrate 9 BB/100.
 
Truffle Shuffle

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ok here's the vpip from all positions.

SB 29.8
BB 10.6
Early 15.3
Middle 15.2
Cut off 21.2
Button 25.6

now be gentle boys........:D
 
thepokerkid123

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Stop completing from SB. Your good odds are tricking you and reverse implied odds are screwing you over (...you're OOP).

Also, loosen up on the button (don't worry about BTN VPIP getting too high if it's less than 40).
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Yep, you play more hands from the worst position than you do from the best position...self explanatory
 
Truffle Shuffle

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Pokerkid
your right. i'm completing the small blind, usually against loose passive players as i know they won't come if for a raise and i can see a cheap flop. then i'm sometimes getting caught up in hands without the best of it, or simply folding to a bet.

complexplaya
thanks. when someone points it out to you it seems so simple, yet without the HEM i would have never noticed and probably just carried on.

so, i'm gonna tighten up my game a little, especially the blinds, and play more from the button. hopefully this will straighten out my play a little and save me some bb/100.
 
Pascal-lf

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Good plan - that's what I'm trying to do too :)
 
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