When you call to set mine and flop and overpair

I have a bit of trouble in these spots. We call to set mine in position or out of the blinds and flop an overpair. Now normally when I set mine and miss I have no trouble tossing my hand in the muck. But when I flopped an over pair it always gets me and I need to come up with a plan of attack for these situations.

Now when it happens and we are in position we can float and see what villains do on the next card yet this could get costly when lots of turn cards will scare us and we call only to fold to a second barrel. Or worse call the second barrel when another low card comes only to be greeted with a 3rd barrel or scare card on the river.

When OOP we can check call a bet and see how villain plays the turn but same as above lots of turn cards will scare us and if the turn checks thru the river could put up another scare card.

I should probably add that I hate to be the guy calling bets. I'm comfortable playing as the aggressor but rarely am I comfortable when calling an opponent down as I never feel like I know where I am.

So what is a good play in these spots? Am I better off just check folding if oop or folding to the cbet on the flop if I don't hit it?

In this spot I usually raise the villain's cbet, if the villain doesn't fold to the raise it is pretty safe to assume that they either have larger overpair or strong flush draw. If they re-raise, then it is an easy fold against most villains. Also, if they just call your re-raise they will often check the turn, giving you the choice of either taking another free card or firing another barrel depending on the board. This situation can also be resolved by looking at pre flop action...did anyone 3bet etc

First i wouldnt try float as much out of position as it is much harder and i didn't see who has the lead in ur example as they are both different approaches. If u plan to float whether or not he fires a second barrel u ether bet if he checks or raise if he bets (also hugely depends on ur opponent whether or not u think he will fold) but with ex. 7,7 with a board of 2,3,6 I personally wouldn't be calling because if the pot was raised pre flop he shouldn't of hit and also depends on the villains range but if ur more comfortable with the lead then take it from him and raise now if he re-raises u or is really aggressive slow down and take a read

Hope it helped did my best with the info provided good luck

I shoulda have posted a few hand examples but for the purpose of discussion I'm talking bout set mining in your standard raised pot. I don't do much if any set mining in 3 bet pots.

Alright so I'm guessing the best play OOP is to just check fold the hand if we don't hit our set to keep us from leaking tons of money and outta tough spots. In position we can float and try and take it on the turn with a bet or just give up to the double barrel without some sort of draw with odds or a set?

OOP is a tough position to be in. C/F maybe.

In position, I often raise my opponents c-bet. Many players cbet all the time regardless. They will often call your raise, and check if they miss the turn. Then I make a strong bet and take it down.

I have no problem firing on the river too. Sometimes A-Q or A-K won't fold until the river.

Do you make the lol minraise or make a manly one?

themosthigh said:

Do you make the lol minraise or make a manly one?

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I play live. A standard c-bet live may be $20-$25. I will minraise mostly. It makes them squirm for sure. But most often, I have them beat anyways. Sometimes big aces just fold to the minraise. Other times they are stubborn and chase all the way to river.

After I minraise, and they call, I am not letting up. If they check, I will bet again. There is no point letting up, I might as well have folded the flop if i can't double or triple barrell.

Two days ago, I got a guy to fold Q-Q. There was a king on board, and he seemed weak. I just kept raising his weak beats until he folded the river. I had 3-5 suited in button, and not even a pair.

He asked me "will you show if I fold?"

"Sure" I said. He was a little steamed.

Wait, some of you guys are actually saying c/f your overpair OOP? Really?

Check/fold... your... overpair?

C/r >>>> c/f

Yeah against a typical opponent your best move is to check raise. Depending upon pre flop action or opponent tendencies a check fold might be the best option. There are so many PFN (Post-Flop-Nits) online that just fire one bet and then give up, if you check raise you get them off almost everything except a higher overpair. So unless the player in question is playing 5/4 or some crazy shit like that then check raise is the best option.

Lucothefish said:

Wait, some of you guys are actually saying c/f your overpair OOP? Really?

Check/fold... your... overpair?

C/r >>>> c/f

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I misread the thread. I thought OP meant overcard, or LP has an overpair. I had to reread it to understand what I was thinking in the first place.

OOP bet with overpair.

So we flat in the blinds with say 99 flop comes out 278 we check standard tag makes a 2/3 cbet, Come back to us we raise, villain calls, turn comes a K? Now what? Just sounds to me like we're gonna be putting ourselves in miserables spots playing like this instead of saying "oh well we didn't hit our set" and just giving up the 4bbs. Anyone with a large database that can filter these spots and give us an idea of how profitable check raising these spots are would be appreciated. Even if we donk we will normally face a raise and be put back to the test.

You really shouldn't BE set mining OOP very often and in the cases where you might (in the blinds with a TIGHT EP opener) you should just ch/fold even when you hold on overpair to the board.

Thanks for the response WVH. We can agree there are few situations where we can set mine from OOP like you stated. I figured the check fold was best but wanted to make sure. But when guys start advocating check raising and shit I wanna know why and if they have records to prove its a profitable play.

I'd hate ch/raising weak overpairs against pretty much anyone we should be flatting OOP against.

WVHillbilly said:

I'd hate ch/raising weak overpairs against pretty much anyone we should be flatting OOP against.

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Not a whole lot of hands qualify. If you flop the overpair, then almost by definition you have 88+ and most decent players will not hang on to their big unpaired (un-co-ordinated) hands with a flop full of babies. A co-ordinated flop, like 234 might get them to hang on for the next card, but really?

CR >>CF most of the time, so not always doing it might be better than always doing it. Keep em guessing. But knowing or not knowing your villains is the key issue here.

themosthigh said:

So we flat in the blinds with say 99 flop comes out 278 we check standard tag makes a 2/3 cbet, Come back to us we raise, villain calls, turn comes a K? Now what? Just sounds to me like we're gonna be putting ourselves in miserables spots playing like this instead of saying "oh well we didn't hit our set" and just giving up the 4bbs. Anyone with a large database that can filter these spots and give us an idea of how profitable check raising these spots are would be appreciated. Even if we donk we will normally face a raise and be put back to the test.

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This is a tricky situation to find yourself in, and how you handle it is very villain and flop texture dependent. I've had situations where my mid pocket pairs have made overpairs, or fell between the top card and Second Button. With low card, offsuited, unconnected flops, it's usually worth it to get in a raise OTF. If that doesn't work, then fire that second barrel.

(9, 9) with a 2, 7, 8 flop is going to be more problematic than if the flop fell: 2, 4, 8. The former flop could have made someone with (7, 8) Top Two. It could also keep in hands like (9, 8) (9, T) (9, J) -- all of which stop your set. The latter flop is less likely to keep such hands sticking around, and less likely to have produced a two pair.

You can't worry about over cards. If your opponent doesn't have a king, then a king on the turn is going to be as scary for him as it is for you. However, he doesn't have to know that. In many cases, a big card on the turn is a good thing. If he doesn't have one, then you can put him to a hard call when you fire that second barrel at him. You might even be able to play him off a weak king. With the flop you gave, I'd be more concerned if the overcard was a T, J, or Q, as these are more likely to hit a straight draw.

Hands like this, and medium sized underpairs require a lot of judgement and "feel", and knowledge of how your opponent(s) typically play. Sometimes, you're good to go, and sometimes folding is the best play.

You shouldn't be playing at setmining OOP (this has been touched on already), so what are you calling OOP with your 77-99 pre for then?

Also if you're check/folding when you're an overpair to the board, what the hell kind of flop were you hoping for when you called pre? It seems to me that unless we hit a set (and we shouldn't be setmining remember) we're folding 100% of flops.

If you're up against a bigger pair you're now a 10/90 dog on the flop. If you're up against two unpaired overcards you're 70/30 favourite. Against all but the nittiest range you're 70/30 way more than half the time here.

If you really want to c/f an overpair just fold pre and save some bb's. You can at least avoid these spots altogether then.