When Should I Move Up To $0.02-$0.05

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thefuture

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I'm new to cash game poker and I'm starting from the bottom ($0.01 - $0.02) and planning to reach the top (high stakes/nose bleeds) within 2-4 years. But my main two questions for the moment are..
1. How many big blinds do I need for $0.01 - $0.02 and
2. When should I move up to $0.02 - $0.05
Can you be pacific with question number 2. I have a $110 dollar bankroll, so how many hands/how much money do I need to make before I can move up to the next level?
 
micromachine

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Easier to talk about bankroll management in terms of buy-ins (1 buy-in = 100bb).

General advice is that should have at least 20 buy-ins for the level you play, but a lot of people including myself feel more comfortable with 30+ buy-ins (at least at levels beyond 5nl). Everyone had different ideas on this but you can't go far wrong with this (not including 16nl here):

$0 - 100: play 2nl
$100 - $250: play 5nl
$250 - $650: play 10nl
$650 - $1250: play 25nl
$1250+: play 50nl
 
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I would disagree.

Yes, talking about buyins is much better - but then it's up to you to determine how much you buy in for. At least on the lower half of the poker table spectrum. I would say that Before 0.50/1.00 tables that's OK behaviour.

After that people will expect you to have 100bb, som might even say that you're ratholing if you're not auto rebuying to the max at the higher levels.

How big your bankroll should be Before you move up is up to you. It depends on your skill and nobody here is a better judge of your skill than you.

Yes, most proffesional poker players feel that 100 buyins is about right for them. But you're building your bankroll, and the microtables are alot easier than the poker they play.

I would say that if you've gained over $100 at 0.01/0.02, then you probably have the skill to move up now. If you do 50 buyins at 0.01/0.02 and then grind your way to 50 buyins at 0.02/0.04, then that can be your bankroll - and then you grind away until you have enough buyins at 0.05/0.10 to give it a go - but if you lose that you go back to 0.02/0.04
So, to complicatenthings I would advice you to have a limit for when you go down in stakes as well as up. If you have a really bad run, then that will give you the time torecover - and also put some pressure on you to perform better.

To sum up:

1. decide what your buyin is
2. decide how many buyins you want in your bankroll to feel safe at all times. (How many buyins would it be near impossible for you to lose?)
3. decide how many buyins you would feel like you need to try out a higher stake table.
4. Decide when you need to move down in stakes, and actually accept and move down when you need to. There is no shame in this, and you don't need to rush it.
5. ...profit :)
 
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thatgreekdude

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You want 50BI's for a safe conservative bankroll strategy, simple as that.
 
Mase31683

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Micro is right, I'd ignore the next two. Personally I'm good with 15-20 BI's to start playing the next level up, but require 20 BI to be full time


But I'm a winner at every stake I've played. I feel I have an edge so I don't need as many BI for variance.

50 BI seems insane to me, enjoy never moving up.

And then in the first response, if you wanna short stack that's fine it's your choice. This isn't about what other people think about you, it's about doing what gives you an edge and wins the other guy's money. If I was a full-time short stacker at the $1knl tables of 2003 making a few BB/100 do you think I care about what other people consider etiquette? If you do, that's fine, but I do what it takes to bring home the money, bottom line. If people weren't supposed to do it there'd be a higher min buy in. I'm not even a short stacker by the way, I'd prefer a min 200bb BI, but that's my general outlook.
 
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mange1234

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Move up

I'm new to cash game poker and I'm starting from the bottom ($0.01 - $0.02) and planning to reach the top (high stakes/nose bleeds) within 2-4 years. But my main two questions for the moment are..
1. How many big blinds do I need for $0.01 - $0.02 and
2. When should I move up to $0.02 - $0.05
Can you be pacific with question number 2. I have a $110 dollar bankroll, so how many hands/how much money do I need to make before I can move up to the next level?

Hey,
I am only repeating what the more seasoned plays say; first, you should have at least 40 time BB in any level of game you play. Playing scared money in not good. Short money only prevents one from playing reasonable poker.

And, move up, only when you win consistently in the level you are playing in. That does not mean you need to win every game. But, win more than you lose.

Good luck,

Mike
 
Keith_MM

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AN alternbative method is to move up when your bankroll has increased by 20buyins from wins,bonuses and vip scheme at your current level. this way you know that you have beaten your current level before moving up. set a stoip loss at which point you move back down and then grind back your losses and decide if you want extra bankroll padding before taking your next shot at moving up so that you can play through a bigger loss to get used to and beat the new level before having to move down if unsuccessful without decimating yuour bankroll.
 
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thechamps

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IMO Thefuture you have the BR to move up but do you feel extremely confident about your play? I think that's most important.

do you think I care about what other people consider etiquette?
like that statement MASE31683. How are you gonna care about what someone thinks about your bankroll that's trying to take it?
 
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thatgreekdude

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Micro is right, I'd ignore the next two.

Lol how very polite of you, I play with a 20BI roll, as a beginner I sure as hell needed them 50BI's, if you've proven you can beat a level and are a consistent winner over a good sample you obviously don't have to go with 50BI's, Hence why I said 'safe and conservative' but nah it's fine just ignore everything I say.
 
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swingro

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Reach 150 and than play at 5NL. take a 10BI shot at 5NL. If it does not work out and you get down to 100 than go back to 2NL and start over. Going to nosebleeds requires hard work. The hardest think you ever did in your life and you need the brain for it. But that is why there are few players there:)
 
SanJoseShark

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I feel comfortable with ~45-50 big blinds for a buy-in for a cash game (online). This is because it's usually half the max buy & I play VERY tight until I double-up. If you only have half of a max-stack's buy-in they are much more likely to call you if you wait for the right hand on them. I've just recently started experimenting with running 4-5 tables with this strategy, it seems to be pretty effective so far if you have some patience.
 
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thechamps

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Like the graph FKnife, Saved it on my cpu Hope you don't mind.
 
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thefuture

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thanks for the advice everyone, means a lot. I've taken all of your comments on board for recommended buy ins per level, and will use your advice for future reference (and thanks to FKnife for the graph). As for the current limits I'm at, I'm going to move up when I've made the $160 mark. I know I could move to 5NL as we speak with my current $100 bankroll, but that's just from a deposit (not from actual grind). I'm too weak off a player too move up yet, even if it is only 5NL.
 
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IWontDominate

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20-25 BI micros,30-50 BIs lowstakes,100+ midstakes because of swings
 
Fknife

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First of all, this graph was made long time ago, somewhere in 2007 when poker generally was much "easier" to beat (just read Harrington-type of book and you could crush small stakes).

How does the cashout structure work fknife? do I have to make that on top of the amount needed to move up or is that just to cash out gradually within each limit


Cashing out some of your bankroll serves as a reminder that the money you're playing with is actually real money, its a reward for your good play but it also ensures that you are well rolled: 1. you cant cash out if you have 20BIs - you need to have at least 50BIs to cash out 5-10BIs 2. prevents you from moving up as soon as you reach 20BIs (common rule), going on a downswing (from which you fail to move down fast enough), losing your entire BR and than hating life and saying online poker is rigged.

Here is an original post by the author of this chart: CLICK. A longer explanation here: CLICK
 
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